Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[prechilill]

The objective of denying the flight attendant jumpseat is strictly a power trip for the flight attendants. It would have been a no-cost item in their new contract, but they declined to provide it. There is no rationale beside spite over the fact that they cannot ride in the cockpit jumpseat per FAR and TSA rules. If letting them ride in the cockpit were up to the captain, most would allow it without hesitation. They have so little power, they needed to assert the little bit they had, and in the process cause a greater divide in our already fractured labor structure.

On so many occasions I have offered to take the cockpit jumpseat to give a more junior flight attendant my cabin seat. I will likely continue doing that, but not without a bit of hesitation over how they have treated pilots on this f/a jumpseat priviliege (which would have cost NOTHING to continue system wide.)

What's the rule at AA? That's what will prevail anyway.

Well said

 

[snapthis]

My bet: Ops won't remain in PIT, but the employees will be offered a transfer to DFW. Almost all of them will jump at the chance to get out of snow country.

I'm afraid you called it correctly. I hope they have positions in DFW if that is the way things go. Snow country or tornado alley?

 

[snapthis]

Well said

I find myself in agreement with EOA and NYC.

That's what happens when you kick the doors down in our fight club we have over here. Enter the ring and you run the risk of getting knocked out.

 

[traderjake]

Snow country or tornado alley?

Tornado alley, 100 degree summer days, and ice storms, DFW gets alot of violent weather.

 

[EastUS1]

On so many occasions I have offered to take the cockpit jumpseat to give a more junior flight attendant my cabin seat. I will likely continue doing that, but not without a bit of hesitation over how they have treated pilots on this f/a jumpseat priviliege (which would have cost NOTHING to continue system wide.)

Likewise on taking the jump to give an FA or nonrev room on more than a few occasions. I can't see the/ANY logic in denying a pilot an FA jumpseat that's not being used, but again; this is now universally contractual and isn't anything to abuse them over. I've always figured the FAs get more than enough grief from the passengers and certainly don't need any from us.

Agreed that AMR's procedures will likely soon reign. I've no idea what those are per FA jumpseats. Guess I can ask a couple of old friends at AMR, but meanwhile...Anyone know?

 

[EastUS1]

That's what happens when you kick the doors down in our fight club we have over here. Enter the ring and you run the risk of getting knocked out.

Up to and including even a Sylvester level strike. This thread in particular cries out for an overhead entry sign: "Abandon all hope all ye who enter here."

 

[snapthis]

Up to and including even a Sylvester level strike!

Hey now..

I was tempted to take your Red Solo Cup Award and hand it to Flyby.

 

[snapthis]

Tornado alley, 100 degree summer days, and ice storms, DFW gets alot of violent weather.

And bugs.

 

[end_of_alpa]

The objective of denying the flight attendant jumpseat is strictly a power trip for the flight attendants. It would have been a no-cost item in their new contract, but they declined to provide it. There is no rationale beside spite over the fact that they cannot ride in the cockpit jumpseat per FAR and TSA rules. If letting them ride in the cockpit were up to the captain, most would allow it without hesitation. They have so little power, they needed to assert the little bit they had, and in the process cause a greater divide in our already fractured labor structure.

On so many occasions I have offered to take the cockpit jumpseat to give a more junior flight attendant my cabin seat. I will likely continue doing that, but not without a bit of hesitation over how they have treated pilots on this f/a jumpseat priviliege (which would have cost NOTHING to continue system wide.)

What's the rule at AA? That's what will prevail anyway.

Well said, Padre! Well said.

 

[Metroyet]

Well said, Padre! Well said.

Yes. So sad when those with little actual power feel slighted and then use an opportunity to exact revenge out of spite isn't it?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Tornado alley, 100 degree summer days, and ice storms, DFW gets alot of violent weather.

How can you always be so positive and looking on the bright side of everything? What a bundle of joy you are.

You forgot the Texas drought, and they probably have lots of mosquitos, too.

 

[traderjake]

You forgot the Texas drought, and they probably have lots of mosquitos, too.

Forgot to mention the Cowboys, a .500 team at best.

 

[Claxon]

Yes. So sad when those with little actual power feel slighted and then use an opportunity to exact revenge out of spite isn't it?

DALLASMORNINGNEWSCOM ARTICLE:
The Airline Biz items we did about pilot lawsuits drew a few interesting emails, which I’ll pass on.
The first is from a former Trans World Airlines pilot now flying for American Airlines. He was hired in 1989 by TWA, but he was among the TWA pilots stapled to the bottom of the American seniority list.
I’m sure he is referring to “St. Louis judge moves TWA dispute over to American Airlines bankruptcy court in New York,” a blog item about a lawsuit some ex-TWA pilots had brought against the Allied Pilots Association. The story never went into the paper, but appeared on the blog. I know he wasn’t happy with the item. I’m not sure why.
Dear Terry,
Whenever I read the paper I feel that reporters do not research. On the TWA article, it is terrible. Did you even do the math. I am a pilot and if I flew my airplanes like you reported i would be dead. I am sorry that you can put in such pathetic reports. I for one have more self respect for my work
[UPDATE: The TWA pilot wrote back to say he had misread the item and thought I had written that the 2,500 most senior TWA pilots were at the top of the American Airlines pilot seniority list.
An American pilot I’ve known for a long time weighed in on the TWA item and the USAPA item, in particular to point out that the APA-AA agreement specified that the Supplement CC arbitration won’t touch the existing seniority list at American Airlines. Here’s what he wrote about the TWA matter:
“I just read your piece about the TWA pilots’ suit being moved to Lane’s court … and yes, the TWA pilots are screwed. That is why they were fighting like hell to keep it from going from MO to Lane’s court. Lane is going to say ‘Too bad, too sad…see ya.’ And they know it. ….
“The Supplement CC arbitration is going to be interesting, but get ready to take some heat for saying ‘American and APA agreed in a new contract adopted last year that they would submit the question of what to do with the St. Louis pilots, their seniority and Supplement CC to binding arbitration.’ I think I know what you meant, but APA specifically agreed to language that said the arbitrators shall not rule on anything that alters the seniority of the merged list as it stands. I suspect you meant they are going to rule on ‘…the question of what to do with the St. Louis pilots, [how they will exercise] their seniority and Supplement CC to binding arbitration., sans-serif !important]
Changing numbers – never going to happen. Allowing some number of TWA captains to keep their seat but have to be on reserve as the perpetually junior captain at the base; that (in my opinion) is precisely what the outcome will be. And the TWA pilots know this and they’re trying everything they can do to keep what I view as the inevitable from occurring.An American Airlines pilot I know wrote me about the US Airline Pilots Association’s action in U.S. Bankruptcy Court to head off a threatened lawsuit by some ex-America West pilots, “US Airline Pilots Association files suit to head off lawsuit by America West pilots.” USAPA represents US Airways pilots, which includes pre-merger US Airways pilots from the East and ex-America West pilots from the West.
Terry
In all of your articles on USAir and America West, you fail to mention that the “easties” have screwed themselves out of $40/hour pay by not let the Nicolau Award be implemented.
We are talking 10′s if not 100′s of thousands of dollars in lost pay PER PILOT due to their own stupidity. sans-serif !important]
Well, that’ll kick the anthill.
And we have this letter from a reader who was responding to the USAPA lawsuit item, particularly to a comment from “Floyd.” You might want to read Floyd’s comment to put the letter below in context. (For the record, we found the lawsuit on the AA bankruptcy website and wrote entirely from the lawsuit. USAPA has not contacted us on the matter.)
Terry,
I wrote this in response to Floyd. I am a pilot for America West. I’m withholding my name because of USAPA’s history of intimidating opposition which includes lawsuits against those who speak out.
Eric paid a $30,000 retainer to start the process of protecting the rights of pilots against a fake union who’s only goal was to advance the intersects of former Us Air pilots which includes placing 1800 furloughed pilots above actively flying pilots at America West. Floyd, I’m disgusted with East pilots like yourself who formed a ‘union’ to get out of binding arbitration.[
The Dallas Morning News story has USAPA’s fingerprints all over it.The common theme being younger, less experienced pilots. Our average age groups is within 4-5 years. I’d also remind the East folks of a dismal safety record. America West retired it’s operating certificate without a single fatality, USAPA has been discrediting West pilots and even sued 18 West pilots for speaking out against the tyranny of the majority. These false RICO charges were tossed out of court by the 4th Circuit with prejudice.[
West pilots sued because they were not being fairly represented. Many pilots refused to pay USAPA dues and were forced to pay under threat of termination.The case was known as the Addignton trial or DFR (Duty of Fair Representation).USAPA brought Sully and Skiles into court to try and influence the jury. Anybody in court that day who heard him say the words, ‘Integrity means doing the right thing even if it’s not convenient.’ The right thing would be to abide by the binding arbitration which decided our seniority by a respected arbitrator and chosen by East pilots.[
Sully is hated by our pilot group and is seen as a false hero and exploited his status at the trial. If he and his fellow East pilots had integrity, they would have abided by their agreement to accept the seniority list. Nicolau was an arbitrator of their choice, FYI.
Finally, I included a court transcript about a story Sully told in court. Nobody who was in court believes a daughter would ask such a question. The West pilots had an ‘integrity matters’ campaign to counter their ‘seniority matters’ lanyards they were wearing with their ID badges.
I hope to ask Sully one day the meaning of the word….Integrity.
I’m embarrassed to be associated with East pilots and their faux union and can speak for the 97% majority of West pilots who took the advice of our attorneys who voted for the MOU. By voting in the MOU, we voted out USAPA and sent it to the trash heap of history
(You know it’s a divided pilot group when they begin talking trash about Sully.....

 

[end_of_alpa]

Yes. So sad when those with little actual power feel slighted and then use an opportunity to exact revenge out of spite isn't it?

You should seek counseling.

 

[Claxon]

"Sully is HATED by our pilot group and seen as a false hero...." Wow Kevin, you are really a sick dude. You are completely out of sync with 100% of the rest of the planet. What a delusional and sick group of guys. Go figure.