Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

That might ring with some kind of integrity if you weren't pushing for DOH. You cannot and will not put a furloughed pilot ahead of our senior FOs.

We are well aware that USAPA will present a DOH list. One would think that after being told by the first arbitrator and every court under the sun you won't get it, you'd learn. Guess not.

Bean

The present called and said to come back to the future.

 

[A320 Driver]

That might ring with some kind of integrity if you weren't pushing for DOH. You cannot and will not put a furloughed pilot ahead of our senior FOs.

We are well aware that USAPA will present a DOH list. One would think that after being told by the first arbitrator and every court under the sun you won't get it, you'd learn. Guess not.

Bean

What's interesting is, by the same reasoning as the NIC, any arbitration scenario is going to put the 40 or so furloughed West pilots at the bottom of the list below all the new hires we've hired over the last couple of years.

 

[nevergiveup]

That might ring with some kind of integrity if you weren't pushing for DOH. You cannot and will not put a furloughed pilot ahead of our senior FOs.

We are well aware that USAPA will present a DOH list. One would think that after being told by the first arbitrator and every court under the sun you won't get it, you'd learn. Guess not.

Bean

We don't have any east furloughed pilots.

 

[nevergiveup]

Crandall told the APA the obvious. Why give your SLI to the whims of an arbitrator when you can work it out yourselves? Wise words, but I don't have faith in mere men being able to pass on the temptation to punt the tedious work to an arbitrator. We'll see, but any way you slice it, the proverbial wide range of reasonableness will surely be wide enough to gurantee sucess for whoever finally comes to a conclusion, the elected reps or the selected panel.

Was Crandall's video for the pilots or for management?

 

[cleardirect]

Keep dreaming Sheldon.....and keep working on that time machine that negates DOH. That is the only chance you have.

However, had you guys been willing to try to work things out at ANYTIME in the last 7 yrs, you would have been better off. Now, you only get what your greedy little selves deserves. Obviously, with the merger and with you guys inheriting the airline in the next 5 yrs, you will be just fine....but you are not allowed to screw us so that you can line you pockets while we finish our careers.

Your greed is unwarranted and out of line.

breeze

More BS. We were told the same thing 7 years ago. In 5 years you will inherit the airline. Now you want another 5 years. So much for your prediction.

News flash we did work it out it is called final and bonding arbitration. Maybe you have heard of it.

Nicolau did not screw you. East pilot did and continue to do so.

Btw your careers were finished 8 years ago. You just got an extension.

 

[nycbusdriver]

They cannot expect to leap frog pilots almost two decades senior. Never going to happen. And because they pursued that evil, they will end up with less going forward. Fact.

IMHO, if it gets to arbitration, they MAY end up with less going forward, but not much less. If it gets to arbitration, forget about DOH. If USAPA insists on DOH during the negotiation phase, they will guarantee an arbitrated list, which will be slotted, IMHO.

What is to be cheered at this juncture is the NIC will never, ever even raise its ugly head again.

You can't really really say that. The arbitration panel can use the Nicolau shame if it wants to, even if it is not presented. (It's available to them and they can form the seniority list however they want as long as they don't resequence pilots out of their place on their own list which the Nicolau does not do.) This is a real danger of arbitration which USAPA faces if they intend to strong-arm the APA during negotiations.

 

[A320 Driver]

IMHO, if it gets to arbitration, they MAY end up with less going forward, but not much less. If it gets to arbitration, forget about DOH. If USAPA insists on DOH during the negotiation phase, they will guarantee an arbitrated list, which will be slotted, IMHO.



You can't really really say that. The arbitration panel can use the Nicolau shame if it wants to, even if it is not presented. (It's available to them and they can form the seniority list however they want as long as they don't resequence pilots out of their place on their own list which the Nicolau does not do.) This is a real danger of arbitration which USAPA faces if they intend to strong-arm the APA during negotiations.

They can do anything they want to. Maybe DOH to the beginning of AWA in 1983, then slotting. Who knows? (I just threw that out there...be fun to see what happens next...)

 

[cleardirect]

Trader, I hope you realize that win or lose, the position of your bargaining agent going forward will be DOH with C/R.

I wish you and yours nothing but the best, but cringe at you making fun of someone because of their age. You never know what medical events and accidents might await you. Yikes. Really? (I suggest an apology)

Greeter

My bargaining is going to be APA very soon. The APA is not going to push for a DOH list.

As soon as the NMB declares APA my bargaining agent. All thing usapa end. The C&BL become invalid. The reps are no longer reps. My dues no longer go to CLT. The bargaining position of usapa ends.

You have no room to talk about age. It is you east pilots that complain about "younger" west pilots. It is east pilot that talk about just wait 5 years and the east will be gone. You make my argument about the stupid logic of just wait 5 years and you can have it all.

So if you are going to chastise someone about age talk to your own people.

 

[cleardirect]

IMHO, if it gets to arbitration, they MAY end up with less going forward, but not much less. If it gets to arbitration, forget about DOH. If USAPA insists on DOH during the negotiation phase, they will guarantee an arbitrated list, which will be slotted, IMHO.



You can't really really say that. The arbitration panel can use the Nicolau shame if it wants to, even if it is not presented. (It's available to them and they can form the seniority list however they want as long as they don't resequence pilots out of their place on their own list which the Nicolau does not do.) This is a real danger of arbitration which USAPA faces if they intend to strong-arm the APA during negotiations.

If usapa insists on using two list. Perhaps the arbitration panel looking back on the antics of usapa decides to place most of the west pilots senior to east pilots in order to correct the last 5 years of avoiding the last arbitration.

No bump and flush but putting west pilots senior would allow west pilots to bid those positions forcing east pilots to wait until the list has returned to where it would have been if the Nicolau was used.

Arbitrators might be protective of the process they make their living from. I would be surprised if arbitrators would just ignore another arbitration.

 

[EastUS1]

Btw your careers were finished 8 years ago.

That's almost as delusional and detached from any aspect of reality as it's possible to get.

 

[Beancounter]

What's interesting is, by the same reasoning as the NIC, any arbitration scenario is going to put the 40 or so furloughed West pilots at the bottom of the list below all the new hires we've hired over the last couple of years.

We don't have any east furloughed pilots.

You guys really think you can drag the snap shot from the AWA/US merger to the current merger? Ohhhhhhhh boy. Okay, we'll good luck with that.

Bean

 

[Beancounter]

That's almost as delusional and detached from any aspect of reality as it's possible to get.

I don't know, read the two quoted posts above.

Bean

 

[A320 Driver]

You guys really think you can drag the snap shot from the AWA/US merger to the current merger? Ohhhhhhhh boy. Okay, we'll good luck with that.

Bean

LOL, no Bean, I don't believe that at all, but that is basically what the NIC does. It's a SLI that was out of date by the time it was issued, never integrated, and has nothing in common with the current paradigm. It really is a quagmire. I stated in another post that my belief is that in a 3 way, I would lose. That's OK. If I do, I do, but there are more important issues associated with the NIC that once resolved might make us whole again. Sure, some will be unhappy, but aren't they always?

 

[luvthe9]

Grow up, I'm not making fun of anyones age.

I'm taunting a guy who spends most of his time taunting his perceived enemies.

I actually feel sorry for the guys retiring now, because of guys like you they've spent the last 5 years on LOA 93.

.

Says the guy that voted FOR LOA 93.

 

[luvthe9]

Trader, I hope you realize that win or lose, the position of your bargaining agent going forward will be DOH with C/R.

I wish you and yours nothing but the best, but cringe at you making fun of someone because of their age. You never know what medical events and accidents might await you. Yikes. Really? (I suggest an apology)

Greeter

Thats OK, typical for a guy who worships Munn and the old ALPA group. PS Traitor some people do have other sources of income besides this job.