Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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You just can't get it through your thick head can you?

DOH would NEVER be good for the west. Not from the start, not now, not 5 years from now.

Furguson has lead the west pilots very well and has the support of the entire seniority list.

It is not up to Kirby. The west pilots have legal rights that no one. Not east pilots, the union or the company can give away.

Now if you had accepted the Nicolau 5 years ago you would have been much better off. Instead it cost you hundreds of millions of dollars and the Nicolau is still going to be stuffed up your back side.
Fergie is a grease ball, he has enough in his hair to lube the whole west fleet.

Fergie took personal East pilot information he obtained from a west management pilot, who hacked a company computer, then knowingly used it for his personal gain.

Ferige was hired in 2003 and wanted the airline seniority of pilot of almost 20 senior and tried to convince others of his scheme.

He fooled you Cap G. "NO" as Mr Kirby told you.
 
I find it hard to blame Fergeson personally. They stuck together and acted as a group.

The thing about Eric that is hard for me to comprehend is he was hired 19 years after me, and yet somehow managed to convince the entire voting West Class to follow him. What were they thinking?

"What were they thinking?" I've sometimes wondered about that. Some fascinating group dynamics, spawned in an angry and chaotic cauldron of brief opportunity, I must suppose. Sizeable red flags should have flown, from all thinking people, the first moment anyone tried to convince them they were heroic "spartans"....just sayin'...
 
You just can't get it through your thick head can you?

DOH would NEVER be good for the west. Not from the start, not now, not 5 years from now.

Furguson has lead the west pilots very well and has the support of the entire seniority list.

It is not up to Kirby. The west pilots have legal rights that no one. Not east pilots, the union or the company can give away.

Now if you had accepted the Nicolau 5 years ago you would have been much better off. Instead it cost you hundreds of millions of dollars and the Nicolau is still going to be stuffed up your back side.

Relax a little. Focus on the facts as they exist today not on the facts as you wish them to be. If the courts have refused to intervene before we agreed to the MB process, why do you suppose they will inject themselves now that we are moving forward?

You want the SLI to be punitive to award perceived damages that you have endured since the PID under ALPA. I doubt an arbitration panel will be tasked with sorting through various alleged past damages. If you do it for one you have to do it for all.

An arbitrator's job isn't to evaluate past errors but to evaluate the current facts and sort out what is best for the future. Implementing NIC now would cause unequal benefit to one side at the harm of the other two. That's why you want it, no surprise. Implementing DOH now would benefit one or two sides at the expense of the other(s), and that is why folks want it, no surprise.

Everyone gets to run to the judges after its all over, but no one should expects to be using the MB process to get reparations when no one has begun to legally consider if damages have even occurred to anyone.

MB is not the right place or time to get award for damages. Relax, it will all work out just fine and if it doesn't you can sue!
 
Phoenix has it right. Better belly up to the present, and face the facts.

It is not, and has never been about screwing the West Class out of what they have, and the lifestyle they expected going forward. But that very expectation is what is challenged. They cannot expect to leap frog pilots almost two decades senior. Never going to happen. And because they pursued that evil, they will end up with less going forward. Fact.

What is to be cheered at this juncture is the NIC will never, ever even raise its ugly head again. If the West Class continues to pursue it, they will only dilute their just positions on the combined list. I will always be amazed they were stupid enough to ratify the MOU by such a large margin. Simply amazing.

DOH with conditions and restrictions. Read it. Learn it. Live it.

Greeter
 
Phoenix has it right. Better belly up to the present, and face the facts.

It is not, and has never been about screwing the West Class out of what they have, and the lifestyle they expected going forward. But that very expectation is what is challenged. They cannot expect to leap frog pilots almost two decades senior. Never going to happen. And because they pursued that evil, they will end up with less going forward. Fact.

What is to be cheered at this juncture is the NIC will never, ever even raise its ugly head again. If the West Class continues to pursue it, they will only dilute their just positions on the combined list. I will always be amazed they were stupid enough to ratify the MOU by such a large margin. Simply amazing.

DOH with conditions and restrictions. Read it. Learn it. Live it.

Greeter

The company lawyer was right. Haven't you guys wasted enough money chasing DOH? You're not getting DOH. Read it. Learn it. Live it.

On a lighter note. From what I've read, POR in October? Then a guess for seniority, done 18 months after? Since the APA and the company favor arbitration, I'm going to go with that. Two lists, three, four.....I don't have a clue.

Bean
 
Recent interesting quotes regarding the Nicolau being a thought or a concern to the powers to be.

"No" Scott Kirby

"The Nicolau case will have absolutely no impact on closing the merger or not."
Doug Parker

West Pilots,

Your west brethren, who led you down the path of no compromise, has to run in to you frequently in the PHX crew base. They are placating you and diverting blame, until they reach virtual anonymity in a few years when the merger is totally consummated.

You are sentenced to a few more years of stagnation and immobility due to their actions, plus your inability to defer peer pressure in your decisions.

Remember your future is bright with your new airline now. Your family and close friends are all that maters to you achieving happiness and self actualization.

Best of luck to all.

Claxon,

I may not agree with everything you wrote, but kudos for saying it nicely :)

Bean
 
The company lawyer was right. Haven't you guys wasted enough money chasing DOH? You're not getting DOH. Read it. Learn it. Live it.

Bean


Not enough moneys spent yet. Totally worth every penny. I have been here 28 years. Under the NIC I would never, ever, be a wide body Capt. Now I am.

The Company lawyers via Kirby just told you the NIC will not be implemented. Read it , Learn it, Live it.

Of course DOH is not assured in the result of the process going forward. But what is assured is our final argument, arbitration or otherwise, will indeed be DOH with fences and restrictions. Your personal future will be decided by the success or failure of that argument.

This is not crowing or bravado. But after almost 8 years of dealing with your perverted and juvenile logic, it really is a happy time for all East pilots, whatever the outcome. Our DOH argument will go forward.

Greeter
 
Kirby also said, all parties will have their say, and almost guaranteed the West would be there as a separate entity from the east and usapa. Well, if the West is there as a party to the arbitration, that alone makes the case that any award result is contestable for now 3 of the 4 reasons, and any award is next to pointless because it would not survive judicial revue.

The parties will be USAPA and APA.

You guys killed any other possibilties with your " there's no one to represent the West" whine.
 
Sure does suck to be in PHX...

Sure does suck to be retiring in two years when we'll be getting parity shortly there after, especially after spending a decade on LOA 93.

It makes some people so crazy they post dozens of mindless pleas begging their fellow pilots to reject a 33% payraise.
 
But after almost 8 years of dealing with your perverted and juvenile logic, it really is a happy time for all East pilots, whatever the outcome. Our DOH argument will go forward.

Greeter

What a strange little world you live in. Agreeing to arbitration and then when you didn't like the outcome, taking your ball and going home. Wouldn't that fall under juvenile logic? Perverted would be what you did to the union.

Bean
 
Sure does suck to be retiring in two years when we'll be seeing parity in three, especially after spending a decade on LOA 93.

It makes a person so crazy he post dozens of mindless pleas begging his fellow worker to reject a 33% payraise.

Trader, I hope you realize that win or lose, the position of your bargaining agent going forward will be DOH with C/R.

I wish you and yours nothing but the best, but cringe at you making fun of someone because of their age. You never know what medical events and accidents might await you. Yikes. Really? (I suggest an apology)

Greeter
 
What a strange little world you live in. Agreeing to arbitration and then when you didn't like the outcome, taking your ball and going home. Wouldn't that fall under juvenile logic? Perverted would be what you did to the union.

Bean

It is simple, at least for me. And reason enough to be involved from day 1. You cannot and will not put a pilot with seventeen years of unbroken service behind a new hire.

Because of USAPA that did not happen. If that is taking the ball home, then good on us.

Greeter
 
I wish you and yours nothing but the best, but cringe at you making fun of someone because of their age. You never know what medical events and accidents might await you. Yikes. Really? (I suggest an apology)

Grow up, I'm not making fun of anyones age.

I'm taunting a guy who spends most of his time taunting his perceived enemies.

I actually feel sorry for the guys retiring now, because of guys like you they've spent the last 5 years on LOA 93.

You've cost them money and time off they can never recover.
 
It is simple, at least for me. And reason enough to be involved from day 1. You cannot and will not put a pilot with seventeen years of unbroken service behind a new hire.

Because of USAPA that did not happen. If that is taking the ball home, then good on us.

Greeter

That might ring with some kind of integrity if you weren't pushing for DOH. You cannot and will not put a furloughed pilot ahead of our senior FOs.

We are well aware that USAPA will present a DOH list. One would think that after being told by the first arbitrator and every court under the sun you won't get it, you'd learn. Guess not.

Bean
 
The company lawyer was right. Haven't you guys wasted enough money chasing DOH? You're not getting DOH. Read it. Learn it. Live it.

On a lighter note. From what I've read, POR in October? Then a guess for seniority, done 18 months after? Since the APA and the company favor arbitration, I'm going to go with that. Two lists, three, four.....I don't have a clue.

Bean

Crandall told the APA the obvious. Why give your SLI to the whims of an arbitrator when you can work it out yourselves? Wise words, but I don't have faith in mere men being able to pass on the temptation to punt the tedious work to an arbitrator. We'll see, but any way you slice it, the proverbial wide range of reasonableness will surely be wide enough to gurantee sucess for whoever finally comes to a conclusion, the elected reps or the selected panel. :)
 
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