Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

[font=Arial"]The Nic was never ratified in a CBA... so it was never legitimized, nor is of any effect, thus separate operations....[/font]

Call Silver and tell her she's got it all wrong. When she said that the Nic award was "strong evidence of a fair outcome" (or something to that effect) I guess she didn't realize that the East hadn't "legitmized" the award. Strange, nowhere in any arbitration in history does one party get to veto the outcome if they don't like it. Whatever, dance all over that dangerous ground. Get to work on that LUP....Judgement day approaches!!!

 

[EastUS1]

Metroyet, on 23 March 2013 - 09:18 AM, said: Who cares how long it drags out......?

....Judgement day approaches!!!

Sigh! At least make up whatever passes for your mind here.

 

[luvthe9]

Call Silver and tell her she's got it all wrong. When she said that the Nic award was "strong evidence of a fair outcome" (or something to that effect) I guess she didn't realize that the East hadn't "legitmized" the award. Strange, nowhere in any arbitration in history does one party get to veto the outcome if they don't like it. Whatever, dance all over that dangerous ground. Get to work on that LUP....Judgement day approaches!!!

Kev, get it through your head NO means NO, you'll sleep better at night. How are you kids going to get the miillion plus you owe Marty. Kirby says NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

 

[Walmartgreeter]

• Setting aside awards:

– (1) for fraud or corruption;

– (2) for failing to decide all issues submitted;

– (3) when arbitrators exceed powers by deciding to many issues; or

– (4) where award is not certain, final, and mutual.


Not ratified. Not FINAL.

And Kirby says "no"

Greeter

 

[Portly Dorman]

You forgot intentional self hostage taking. Did anyone on the east want a contract?

It got Bradford his captain seat back, guess he got what he wanted.

Can anyone provide this 'list' that is fair and equitable to all here?

• Setting aside awards:

– (1) for fraud or corruption;

– (2) for failing to decide all issues submitted;

– (3) when arbitrators exceed powers by deciding to many issues; or

– (4) where award is not certain, final, and mutual.


Not ratified. Not FINAL.

And Kirby says "no"

Greeter

 

[Claxon]

Call Silver and tell her she's got it all wrong. When she said that the Nic award was "strong evidence of a fair outcome" (or something to that effect) I guess she didn't realize that the East hadn't "legitmized" the award. Strange, nowhere in any arbitration in history does one party get to veto the outcome if they don't like it. Whatever, dance all over that dangerous ground. Get to work on that LUP....Judgement day approaches!!!

It is my humble opinion that calling the Honorable Judge Silver and telling her that the East pilots agreed with her court order would be more appropriate . Judges are very busy and contacting them in the way you propose would not be advisable, they are very busy and not receptive to such query's.

You yourself should refer to your own west pilots website, I am sure you will find it a very interesting and existential read.

"Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment, IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US AirlinePilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012."

http://leonidas.cact...oc194_Order.pdf

 

[nic4us]

• Setting aside awards:

– (1) for fraud or corruption;

– (2) for failing to decide all issues submitted;

– (3) when arbitrators exceed powers by deciding to many issues; or

– (4) where award is not certain,
final, and mutual.


Not ratified. Not FINAL.

And Kirby says "no"

Greeter

I think you misunderstood me.

The Nic is not being set aside, and the east is over 5 years too late to contest it or have it vacated in court.

Now look at those 4 reasons, decide which 2 the West could contest any future integration of the LCC pilots when not using the only accepted system seniority list for our pilots, then get back to us why a future arbitration panel would even enertain the notion that the Nic is not a valid list.

As for Kirby and his No answere. Very truthful on his part. But in typical usapian fashion you think he said NO NIC. Not the case, NO was the answere to his thought on "does the POR cause implementation of the Nic". He was saying, and I believe went on to say, the company is neutral and will not take a stand on seniority integration.

Kirby also said, all parties will have their say, and almost guaranteed the West would be there as a separate entity from the east and usapa. Well, if the West is there as a party to the arbitration, that alone makes the case that any award result is contestable for now 3 of the 4 reasons, and any award is next to pointless because it would not survive judicial revue.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Kirby also said, all parties will have their say, and almost guaranteed the West would be there as a separate entity from the east and usapa. Well, if the West is there as a party to the arbitration, that alone makes the case that any award result is contestable for now 3 of the 4 reasons, and any award is next to pointless because it would not survive judicial revue.

I had to go back and watch Kirby again. I heard every perspective will be heard, nothing about all parties having a say.

He actually says, after talking about possible conditions and restrictions (go figure) "possible for you, when USAPA and APA......." That is at least the second time he mentions the "unions" doing the presenting. And he indeed makes it clear he thinks it will go to arbitration.

If AOL gets a seat, it would really be a doozy of a decision. Legal history shows it is rare for a party already represented by a union to get separate status. If that happened, TWA, Empire, Trump, and even PSA might have a seat. I doubt it, and listening to Kirby he understands it will be the unions doing the talking.

Will an arbitrator be aware of the NIC? Unless he was living in cave in Pacific since WW2 I doubt he or she will be uninformed. But with reasonable fences and restrictions proposed, and any growth flying over the last 8 years shared with PHX, I see little problem in presenting a DOH list. But the good thing for you all is I will have zero input or participation in the process.

Thus my participation here.


Greeter

 

[Claxon]

Recent interesting quotes regarding the Nicolau being a thought or a concern to the powers to be.

"No" Scott Kirby

"The Nicolau case will have absolutely no impact on closing the merger or not."
Doug Parker

West Pilots,

Your west brethren, who led you down the path of no compromise, has to run in to you frequently in the PHX crew base. They are placating you and diverting blame, until they reach virtual anonymity in a few years when the merger is totally consummated.

You are sentenced to a few more years of stagnation and immobility due to their actions, plus your inability to defer peer pressure in your decisions.

Remember your future is bright with your new airline now. Your family and close friends are all that maters to you achieving happiness and self actualization.

Best of luck to all.

 

[luvthe9]

Furguson and friends really screwed you guys over, you would have been much better off to go with DOH from the start, your AFO group cost you big time. Remember Kirby said NO.!!! (without any hesitation)

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Furguson and friends really screwed you guys over, you would have been much better off to go with DOH from the start, your AFO group cost you big time. Remember Kirby said NO.!!! (without any hesitation)

I find it hard to blame Fergeson personally. They stuck together and acted as a group.

The thing about Eric that is hard for me to comprehend is he was hired 19 years after me, and yet somehow managed to convince the entire voting West Class to follow him. What were they thinking?

Did they really think putting a guy with seventeen years unbroken service behind a new hire was going to stand? We always knew the answer, same as Kirby's reply to the NIC being implemented....."no."

Greeter

 

[Black Swan]

I find it hard to blame Fergeson personally. They stuck together and acted as a group.

The thing about Eric that is hard for me to comprehend is he was hired 19 years after me, and yet somehow managed to convince the entire voting West Class to follow him. What were they thinking?

Did they really think putting a guy with seventeen years unbroken service behind a new hire was going to stand? We always knew the answer, same as Kirby's reply to the NIC being implemented....."no."

Greeter

Perhaps they should read the true story titled AMISTAD........

 

[cleardirect]

Furguson and friends really screwed you guys over, you would have been much better off to go with DOH from the start, your AFO group cost you big time. Remember Kirby said NO.!!! (without any hesitation)

You just can't get it through your thick head can you?

DOH would NEVER be good for the west. Not from the start, not now, not 5 years from now.

Furguson has lead the west pilots very well and has the support of the entire seniority list.

It is not up to Kirby. The west pilots have legal rights that no one. Not east pilots, the union or the company can give away.

Now if you had accepted the Nicolau 5 years ago you would have been much better off. Instead it cost you hundreds of millions of dollars and the Nicolau is still going to be stuffed up your back side.

 

[mrbreeze]

Now if you had accepted the Nicolau 5 years ago you would have been much better off.

Keep dreaming Sheldon.....and keep working on that time machine that negates DOH. That is the only chance you have.

However, had you guys been willing to try to work things out at ANYTIME in the last 7 yrs, you would have been better off. Now, you only get what your greedy little selves deserves. Obviously, with the merger and with you guys inheriting the airline in the next 5 yrs, you will be just fine....but you are not allowed to screw us so that you can line you pockets while we finish our careers.

Your greed is unwarranted and out of line.

breeze

 

[Claxon]

You just can't get it through your thick head can you?

DOH would NEVER be good for the west. Not from the start, not now, not 5 years from now.

Furguson has lead the west pilots very well and has the support of the entire seniority list.

It is not up to Kirby. The west pilots have legal rights that no one. Not east pilots, the union or the company can give away.

Now if you had accepted the Nicolau 5 years ago you would have been much better off. Instead it cost you hundreds of millions of dollars and the Nicolau is still going to be stuffed up your back side.

Ferguson has been proved to be a mediocre attorney at best. His incompetence is legendary, the only beneficiary being the Marty Harper household. Koontz comes next, the most incompetent of all being Mitch Vaselino.