Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

"No."
-- Scott Kirby

 

[snapthis]

Ok.....who is Scherf?

He is the Phoenix USAPA Chairman and former assistant chief pilot.

 

[CaptChill]

It's really quite simple. Everybody also agreed to the process to integrate the east and west. Funny how you hypocrites are so fking blind to the obvious. The Courts are simply required to force compliance with that process FIRST then we move on to the process you're alluding to. After that, the company and the union are going to be sued for a horrific amount of money because the average idiot can understand how "neutral" the company has been. Interesting fact. NOWHERE in the TA was the company contractually required to be neutral on anything. in fact, the TA spells out specifically what the roles and responsibilities of each party was to be.

They'll get to attempt to convince a jury of their benevolent neutrality. That should be fun. Who cares how long it drags out...the average west pilot is what? 29 years old? HA!!

This has been said countless times... The Nic was not a federally mandated arbitration, unlike MB arbitration... it was an internal union process, that failed miserably. Given the findings of the 9th, and Judge Silver.. you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting anywhere with your argument... I don't care how much money you want to throw at it!

 

[Metroyet]

This has been said countless times... The Nic was not a federally mandated arbitration, unlike MB arbitration... it was an internal union process, that failed miserably. Given the findings of the 9th, and Judge Silver.. you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting anywhere with your argument... I don't care how much money you want to throw at it!

the DFR owed the West pilots IS VERY MUCH FEDERALLY MANDATED. That's USTUPIDS problem and precisely why voting them in cast the nic in stone. The 9th and Silver, and Wake ALL clearly warned USAPA about proceeding with the DOH scheme. It's crystal clear. Phrases like "unquestionably ripe" and "dangerous ground" don't really bolster your position very well. You should be elated to have yet another opportunity to stand before a Judge and explain what, EXACTLY, the FEDERALLY MANDATED LEGITIMATE UNION PURPOSE for ignoring the nic. Actually is.

We're all waiting with bated breath to hear that one. Best of luck.

 

[cleardirect]

I would love to hear the argument for an injunction in light of the fact that 98% of the pilots affected voted in favor of the very process your lawyer is trying to enjoin.

Interesting logic.

Still can't figure it out.

You guys are slow.

 

[snapthis]

the DFR owed the West pilots IS VERY MUCH FEDERALLY MANDATED. That's USTUPIDS problem and precisely why voting them in cast the nic in stone. The 9th and Silver, and Wake ALL clearly warned USAPA about proceeding with the DOH scheme. It's crystal clear. Phrases like "unquestionably ripe" and "dangerous ground" don't really bolster your position very well. You should be elated to have yet another opportunity to stand before a Judge and explain what, EXACTLY, the FEDERALLY MANDATED LEGITIMATE UNION PURPOSE for ignoring the nic. Actually is.

We're all waiting with bated breath to hear that one. Best of luck.

You are witnessing the various forms of the mourning process:

1) Denial and isolation

2) Anger

3) Bargaining

4) Depression

5) Acceptance

They realize that USAPA is going away, so goes DOH. You are seeing them go through the first four phases.

They will get to stage 5, just a matter of time, Metro. Give em time.

 

[cleardirect]

Bean, that is exactly what we have. Three pilot groups under three different contracts. You cannot escape that. Even after the POR, you STILL have three contracts. They will share certain facets such as compensation, but you still have three groups. You can't get around it. The MOU is a bridge to a single contract, nothing more, nothing less. That is an opinion that I think will hold up. I am not afraid of the process. I am senior enough that it is unlikely to reward me. Quite the contrary, I am likely to lose ground in a three way to West Captains with less LOS. So be it. Put the cards on the table and let the arbitrators decide and lets get on with this. The NIC is an abortion. Let it die.

What exactly we have is two airlines and two pilot groups.

Read the MOU. Who are the parties to the agreement?

The MOU talks about integrating US Airways pilots and American pilots.

So in this next merger you are willing to accept a west captain with less LOS but have given away hundreds of millions of dollars and destroyed the reputation of east pilots because you did not want west captains with less LOS using the Nicolau.

Your illogic hurts my head.

 

[Zone5]

Three pilot groups? That's funny, I could have sworn only two pilot groups voted for the process. I didn't realize that the AWA pilots had a separate vote for the MOU. Since there never was a prior merger, that must mean the west pilots are going to be represented by ALPA. Wow, I sure was confused, thanks for helping to clear that up.

Bean

You're welcome, no problem, glad to help! I don't know about you, but I'm looking forward to watching the next AWA equipment bid. It will be very entertaining to observe the scramble to the now "higher paying" 757! I'm assuming the "pecking order" will be based on.......DOH. Who knows, might even help you develop a new level of understanding about the value and importance of DOH! Probably not. Maybe you guys could hold a lottery instead, or have an arbitrator reorder the list for you based on......whatever he thinks would be FAIR, like maybe, shoe size, alphabetically, career expectation, zip code, draw straws, anything but DOH! Oh the pain, the horror, the inhumanity of a DOH list.

Why is it called the West class of pilots? I don't get the "class" part, well maybe "low class" or "no class". By the way that 97 hire AWA Captain on the last PHX crew news video was great, very impressive! "Can we please have the NIC at the POR?" NOT, NADA, NYET!


seajay

 

[Zone5]

the DFR owed the West pilots IS VERY MUCH FEDERALLY MANDATED. That's USTUPIDS problem and precisely why voting them in cast the nic in stone. The 9th and Silver, and Wake ALL clearly warned USAPA about proceeding with the DOH scheme. It's crystal clear. Phrases like "unquestionably ripe" and "dangerous ground" don't really bolster your position very well. You should be elated to have yet another opportunity to stand before a Judge and explain what, EXACTLY, the FEDERALLY MANDATED LEGITIMATE UNION PURPOSE for ignoring the nic. Actually is.

We're all waiting with bated breath to hear that one. Best of luck.

Better yet, why don't you all just "hold" your breath instead and we will get back to you!


seajay

 

[mrbreeze]

the DFR owed the West pilots IS VERY MUCH FEDERALLY MANDATED. That's USTUPIDS problem and precisely why voting them in cast the nic in stone. The 9th and Silver, and Wake ALL clearly warned USAPA about proceeding with the DOH scheme. It's crystal clear. Phrases like "unquestionably ripe" and "dangerous ground" don't really bolster your position very well. You should be elated to have yet another opportunity to stand before a Judge and explain what, EXACTLY, the FEDERALLY MANDATED LEGITIMATE UNION PURPOSE for ignoring the nic. Actually is.

We're all waiting with bated breath to hear that one. Best of luck.

\

 

[end_of_alpa]

This has been said countless times... The Nic was not a federally mandated arbitration, unlike MB arbitration... it was an internal union process, that failed miserably. Given the findings of the 9th, and Judge Silver.. you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting anywhere with your argument... I don't care how much money you want to throw at it!

Let the "village idiot" spew. You waste your time.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

You are witnessing the various forms of the mourning process:

1) Denial and isolation

2) Anger

3) Bargaining

4) Depression

5) Acceptance

They realize that USAPA is going away, so goes DOH. You are seeing them go through the first four phases.

They will get to stage 5, just a matter of time, Metro. Give em time.

Geez, how many times are you guys going to post this list. Go back to 2007, same rhetoric.

The reality is any last gasp of even referencing the NIC goes away at the POR. Thanks for you vote of support.

And at some point after that our DOH position will be made to the APA, and maybe to arbitrators.

And THEN, only then will USAPA go away.

So the liteny really goes like this: No NIC, DOH arguments made, a binding decision either way, and USAPA happily folds its tent.

Don't know about everyone else out here in the East, but I am pleased and happy at current events, especially after Kirby's (expected) comments. And some major pay raises and improvements in working conditions.

What is the tragedy we are supposed to be dealing with? Please tell us.

Greeter

 

[cactusboy53]

This has been said countless times... The Nic was not a federally mandated arbitration, unlike MB arbitration... it was an internal union process, that failed miserably. Given the findings of the 9th, and Judge Silver.. you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting anywhere with your argument... I don't care how much money you want to throw at it!

Keep telling yourself that, Dorothy...."There's no place like home. There's no place like home. There's no place like home."

Mikey & Randy said (in 2000) that no arbitrated list had EVER been vacated by the courts. Hmmmm, I wonder which way this will legally, logically, ethically & morally go.......??

 

[snapthis]

Geez, how many times are you guys going to post this list. Go back to 2007, same rhetoric.

The reality is any last gasp of even referencing the NIC goes away at the POR. Thanks for you vote of support.

And at some point after that our DOH position will be made to the APA, and maybe to arbitrators.

And THEN, only then will USAPA go away.

So the liteny really goes like this: No NIC, DOH arguments made, a binding decision either way, and USAPA happily folds its tent.

Don't know about everyone else out here in the East, but I am pleased and happy at current events, especially after Kirby's (expected) comments. And some major pay raises and improvements in working conditions.

What is the tragedy we are supposed to be dealing with? Please tell us.

Greeter

Greeter,

We expect you to present the DOH list, we want you to present the DOH list. It is one of the nails we know you will hand us.

We have the hammer and intend on using it.

Then we will put USAPA in the hole and bury it.

Flowers will be sent to the cemetery on Woodlawn.

Celebration to follow at McKoy's.

 

[Phoenix]

I wonder if anyone could find an example of an internal union dispute that was resolved by the members of the union voting for a new, simple process to replace an old process. Nah, it's probably illegal to do that.