Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

If it is so simple and clear that the MOU kills the Nicolau. Why not clear state that? Why would usapa leave any doubt or room for interpretation? This has been going on for 5 because both sides read the language differently.

The east has the majority and have always said majority rules and you get to vote on seniority. You east pilots also say the company plays games with language. Why not plainly state up front and leave no doubt?

Why did usapa hide in your belief the MOU killed the Nicolau? Why did they state that the MOU was neutral and did not kill the MOU or implement DOH? Do you think it would have passed if the MOU plainly stated DOH would be used in the American merger for the us airways list?

Cut the BS. It's clear and you have paid your attorney's plenty if you couldn't figure it out.

You voted for it because YOU thought the language could be played to your favor. We'll see.

 

[Pi brat]

He made it clear the NIC would NOT be implemented on the date of the POR.

I don't know Greeter, that "NO" is pretty ambiguous.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Cut the BS. It's clear and you have paid your attorney's plenty if you couldn't figure it out.

You voted for it because YOU thought the language could be played to your favor. We'll see.

Don't forget, they have secret audio tapes of the NAC base briefings. They claim PHX was lied to. So they are going to tell a judge they "knew" something was wrong but they voted for it anyway, so they could use the tapes and sue. Really?

DFR II is already DOA, not ripe. Never has been. Its all about the MOU process going forward now, the one the West class endorsed.

Greeter

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I don't know Greeter, that "NO" is pretty ambiguous.

And now that I think about it, Kirby saying NIC won't be implemented on the date of the POR means it is NOT in effect NOW.

And there you have it. Its official. The Company does NOT suppport the West in their ripeness claim.

No joint list, no joint bid, and none of the arbitrated 190 flying. Not ripe, no JCBA.

Greeter

 

[Zone5]

The west voted in favor of an integration process between US Airways and American.

If as you believe the MOU kills the Nicolau why leave any doubt? Plainly state that in the MOU.

Why the cloak and dagger? Why not for once have usapa be honest, tell the truth and state the MOU kills the Nicolau instead is of saying it was neutral.

Should we never believe what usapa has to say if they continually lie to the members?

Is lying a defense in court? Well your honor we told the pilots one thing but winked and nodded to the east pilots it really meant something else. The west fell for it so we win.

Thing that will go over in a court of law?

I assume that you were either at or have seen the video of the latest PHX crew news. "Team Tempe" CLEARLY stated that the MOU and for that matter management are both neutral on the issue of SLI, that the SLI will be settled in accordance with the process called for in the MOU (M/B) and that the POR will not trigger implementation of the NIC.

Furthermore, until single carrier status with AMR is achieved (18 months or so from the POR) there will be little or no "mixing" of East/West pilot crews. Because of the "unknowns" associated with the M/B SLI process (negotiated, arbitrated, slotting, DOH/C&R's, fences, ect, ect, ect), if I were you I would pretty much count on being right where you are for the next 2+- years. That would be the "earliest", after SLI is completed, that the company will put out a system wide bid encompassing the results of the SLI. Not to mention little or no pilot staffing increase in PHX in the meantime.

Oh, and that growth in feed to LAX, sounds a lot like RJ's to me. At least that's what we have seen on the East operation. Masses of RJ's feeding PHX and either in house mainline flights to LAX Intl (read former AMR pilots fly from there to the Far East) or maybe just non-stops (flown by former AMR pilots, there's that nasty MOU you guys voted for 98%) to China, Japan......wherever. In any case it won't be LCC pilots of any flavor.


seajay

 

[nevergiveup]

The west voted in favor of an integration process between US Airways and American.

If as you believe the MOU kills the Nicolau why leave any doubt? Plainly state that in the MOU.

Why the cloak and dagger? Why not for once have usapa be honest, tell the truth and state the MOU kills the Nicolau instead is of saying it was neutral.

Should we never believe what usapa has to say if they continually lie to the members?

Is lying a defense in court? Well your honor we told the pilots one thing but winked and nodded to the east pilots it really meant something else. The west fell for it so we win.

Thing that will go over in a court of law?

Been trying for how long to tell you the company wants a 3 way. Plain and simple in the legal system just doesn't cut it. Look at the way all of the court responses read. The NCAA rulebook should say, "Athletes shall receive only books, board, and tuition," ref J. Clower, but it is instead a monster just like Obamacare.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Oh great, Kirby giving legal advice. Parker never knew what his legal team was saying and Kirby has definitive answers.

And now that I think about it, Kirby saying NIC won't be implemented on the date of the POR means it is NOT in effect NOW.

And there you have it. Its official. The Company does NOT suppport the West in their ripeness claim.

No joint list, no joint bid, and none of the arbitrated 190 flying. Not ripe, no JCBA.

Greeter

 

[Portly Dorman]

So much for luv2lie and PHX dying. Principle western connecting hub, PHX gets stronger*. LAX is not a connecting hub, local market*. Just so he can save face it will be all E190's.

*if Kirby is right on his legal advice the info on PHX/LAX has to be correct too...

 

[cleardirect]

Cut the BS. It's clear and you have paid your attorney's plenty if you couldn't figure it out.

You voted for it because YOU thought the language could be played to your favor. We'll see.

How can you countredict yourself in the same post?

If it is clear how could we think we could play it in our favor?

If it is clear why does it not say. This MOU kills the Nicolau?

It does not say that. The intent was not to kill the Nicolau. The statements from usapa say it is neutral.

Might it be that you easties are reading what you want I to it and it does not kill the Nicolau?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Oh great, Kirby giving legal advice. Parker never knew what his legal team was saying and Kirby has definitive answers.

Your boss is telling you he is going to do something a certain way, read "not your way." Better file a personal grievance. Other than making fun of Kirby's legal skills here, its your only option.

May will mark 8 years since the merger announcement, and you are still not bidding East. At least 2 more years to go, no matter what happens!

Hello McFly! Do you not see a trend?

Greeter

 

[Zone5]

Oh great, Kirby giving legal advice. Parker never knew what his legal team was saying and Kirby has definitive answers.

You can bet that anything Kirby says regarding the SLI process, in public, for the record and at a PHX crew news session, has been THOROUGHLY vetted and approved by a team of lawyers that management is paying lots of money to! So, take it for what it's worth, pretty much the gospel. By the way are you guy's current on your past legal fees or do you still owe Marty a few million? Thank god for those profit sharing checks, right!


seajay

 

[nevergiveup]

How can you countredict yourself in the same post?

If it is clear how could we think we could play it input favor?

If it is clear why does it not say. This MOU kills the Nicolau?

It does not say that. The intent was not to kill the Nicolau. The statements from usapa say it is neutral.

Might it be that you easties are reading what you want I to it and it does not kill the Nicolau?

The intent was to provide a method for seniority integration. They knew that unless the merger fells apart, there would never be a negotiated JCBA and the NIC would never be implemented. The MOU creates a path for integration and allows the company to have a successful merger.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Ah, yeah, right.

If it was then he would have said what Doug does, I don't know. Doug and Scott can lie all day in a crew news session.

Current and paid ahead was what I heard at the last meet and greet. Has your check cashed yet??

You can bet that anything Kirby says regarding the SLI process, in public, for the record and at a PHX crew news session, has been THOROUGHLY vetted and approved by a team of lawyers that management is paying lots of money to! So, take it for what it's worth, pretty much the gospel. By the way are you guy's current on your past legal fees or do you still owe Marty a few million? Thank god for those profit sharing checks, right!


seajay

 

[Zone5]

So much for luv2lie and PHX dying. Principle western connecting hub, PHX gets stronger*. LAX is not a connecting hub, local market*. Just so he can save face it will be all E190's.

*if Kirby is right on his legal advice the info on PHX/LAX has to be correct too...

Like I said, just because PHX "gets stronger" after the merger is completed (in a few more years), it doesn't mean ANY growth in mainline PHX pilot staffing. Former AMR pilots have an MOU lock on Far East flying and the "history" of Intl feed on the East Coast has been predominantly RJ's. Oh, and the new OneWorld relationship with Japan Airlines smells a lot like their 787's from Tokyo to PHX, is a real possibility. Look at the bright side, you have been clamoring for 190's and it looks like you or your contract RJ pilots are going to get them! Not to mention that Kirby specifically said no growth in PHX pilot staffing is planned.

NIC or nothing, how's that working out for you? So far, DOH is working just fine for me!


seajay

 

[Zone5]

Given the current "known" circumstances, specifically that the merger is about 99% a slam dunk at this point, that the MOU provides for significant pay increases and that "new hires" are going straight to the AB320, why are there still West pilots "bypassing" East jobs?
I guess if you step on your crank long enough with golf shoes, it starts to feel good. :blink:


seajay