Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

[font=Arial']By choice, some have passed up Group II jobs on the East.[/font]

[font=Arial']In the strictest of terms, they are not "recalled" if they come East. They take their place at the bottom of the list. I say bottom but I believe that was just changed to put them in seniority order with other West pilots "for hire." Imagine that. DOH seniority.[/font]

[font=Arial']Greeter[/font]

Imagine that. The "Date of hire" union did nothing to,actually get the west pilots their DOH. It was the company that did that and oh yeah usapa fought it.

Actions speak louder than words. Usapa actions have been terrible.

 

[cleardirect]

I said nothing about furloughed pilots of any kind. New hire and a pilot with seventeen years UNBROKEN service. Get it? No furlough.

As usual, you guys are a moving target. I have been talking about the seventeen year guy for years. If that had been fixed we probably would not be here, and you would probably be living in AVL and flying out of CLT.

Greeter

Ok let's be clear. You agree that the FURLOUGHED east pilots should be junior to active west pilot? That Colello should be junior to O'Dell?

So you are upset the junior active east pilots were not given more credit correct.

Exactly how much credit would have been enough for you? How many years would have "fixed" it for you? So that the east would not have ignored arbitration. Ran away from your agreements. Sued the west? Cost all the pilots hundreds of millions of dollars and forever cemented the east reputations as liars and scum bags?

How many years would have put your heart at ease?

 

[prechilill]

[font=Arial']I said nothing about furloughed pilots of any kind. New hire and a pilot with seventeen years UNBROKEN service. Get it? No furlough.[/font]

[font=Arial']As usual, you guys are a moving target. I have been talking about the seventeen year guy for years. If that had been fixed we probably would not be here, and you would probably be living in AVL and flying out of CLT.[/font]

[font=Arial']Greeter[/font]

You certainly are a professional cherry picker, pal. How about going down the east list a little farther than that 17 year never furloughed pilot and see what would happen with a guy THAT WAS FURLOUGHED in your little DOH plan. You are on an island by thinking a furloughed pilot or in your example a bottom reserve first officer should go ahead of 757 captains. You (easties) are on an island all by yourselves with this kind of thinking. Our friends in Dallas are well aware of your DNA and want the USAPA cancer to go away. The west will help the APA every step of the way.

 

[snapthis]

Your high dues rate is self inflicted.

And Bradford did not lie. He told you we would never allow a new hire to go ahead of a seventeen year pilot.

Greeter

Greeter,

Would you let Bradford know, we'll call him if we need his opinion.? Don't call us.

His phone will probably be ringing when Marty comes a calling during DFRII.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Greeter,

Would you let Bradford know, we'll call him if we need his opinion.? Don't call us.

His phone will probably be ringing when Marty comes a calling during DFRII.

[font=Arial']So I guess Cactus Dave finally gave you the news. No combined list, no joint bid, no 190 flying. Surely he asked the Company about all that, by now.[/font]

[font=Arial']Now you are back to you old routine of threatening legal action. Whatever.[/font]

[font=Arial']Greeter[/font]

 

[snapthis]

[font=Arial']So I guess Cactus Dave finally gave you the news. No combined list, no joint bid, no 190 flying. Surely he asked the Company about all that, by now.[/font]

[font=Arial']Now you are back to you old routine of threatening legal action. Whatever.[/font]

[font=Arial']Greeter[/font]

Greeter,

DFRII is already filed.

Fill me in. I did not hear a thing. Details?

 

[Zone5]

There is no JCBA. Nothing at all has changed and won't unless and until there is a POR, at which time everything is replaced with the new agreement, that we all agreed to. Good luck with that being a DFR breach. Really, good luck. The longer you guys tie it up the longer it is DOH!

Got to love the simplicity of it, how true! It really is amazing how some of these Westies apparently didn't even read or can't comprehend what they (all but 24 of them) voted for. Either that or they really believe their "Hail Marty" has a snowballs' chance in hell of working, or kind of like being on the receiving end of a "power play" and an "empty net" near the end of a tied up hockey game. Hope springs eternal! I think I'll just go with what the MOU actually says, specifically, the part about the two LISTS at LCC (some merger!) and the part about a JCBA, which WILL BE negotiated sometime AFTER the POR. Looks like DOH for another 24-30 months and ten "whatever" with fences till way after I'm long gone, Oh well.....SLI?..... not my problem! In the meantime, I am looking forward to a nice pay raise, better DCP contributions, more vacation and at least a few more years of attrition, followed by a few more years of good old LCC style stagnation (fences) prior to retirement. Beats the NIC!


seajay

 

[Pi brat]

Greeter,

DFRII is already filed.

Fill me in. I did not hear a thing. Details?

Not to speak for Greater but I believe he is referring to the fact that if the TA is completed then the company has certain obligations and we haven't heard anything from them about it. That's my take.

 

[snapthis]

Not to speak for Greater but I believe he is referring to the fact that if the TA is completed then the company has certain obligations and we haven't heard anything from them about it. That's my take.

Ok, thanks Pi.

 

[Zone5]

Nothing in the MOU trumps federal law and the status quo provisions. Nothing. I know you think this agreement waves a magic wand relieving the West of their civil rights but you would be incorrect. You indeed are under a contingent CBA that is joint to the East and West. The MOU was designed to me "neutral" on the seniority issue while at the same time removing all ripeness barriers so this could move smoothly through the court system unimpeded by technicalities.

Why is the East always so hesitant to get this hashed out in the only venue that has the authority to do so? Court. In fact, the East wants to avoid a courtroom like the plague. I wonder why? Once again, your getting dragged back in kicking and screaming. This time however it's going to stick. You really should have kept ALPA if the nic. Was so bad...as per normal, the East made the worst possible decision and went USAPA.

So now this has become a "civil rights" issue? I liked your chances better when it was a matter of convincing a judge that "adopting the MOU is a breach of the Transition Agreement implied covenant", whatever that is! How long have you been suffering these delusional episodes?


seajay

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Not to speak for Greater but I believe he is referring to the fact that if the TA is completed then the company has certain obligations and we haven't heard anything from them about it. That's my take.

Thanks Pi. And if all of those things don't happen, we cannot be "ripe."

Greeter

 

[nevergiveup]

The west voted in favor of the seniority integration process outlined in the MOU. They were well aware that no-where did it mention the NIC would be used. They wanted this more than the east. Time for us to move ahead.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Just watched a small portion of the PHX crew news with Kirby. He made it clear the NIC would NOT be implemented on the date of the POR.

Some interesting stuff I had not considered, apparently we will be able to interfly airframes, since there will be no distinction of East or West metal. He seemed unsure if that would happen.

And he did give some hope to those in the room, he said something to the effect all opinons will be heard in front of the arbitrators. I don't know if that is a signal of the Company's support for a a three way, or that simply all opinons will somehow be presented.

I will let others judge, but I might deduce Kirby thinks arbitration is what is going to happen.

Let the spin begin.

Greeter

 

[cleardirect]

Got to love the simplicity of it, how true! It really is amazing how some of these Westies apparently didn't even read or can't comprehend what they (all but 24 of them) voted for. Either that or they really believe their "Hail Marty" has a snowballs' chance in hell of working, or kind of like being on the receiving end of a "power play" and an "empty net" near the end of a tied up hockey game. Hope springs eternal! I think I'll just go with what the MOU actually says, specifically, the part about the two LISTS at LCC (some merger!) and the part about a JCBA, which WILL BE negotiated sometime AFTER the POR. Looks like DOH for another 24-30 months and ten "whatever" with fences till way after I'm long gone, Oh well.....SLI?..... not my problem! In the meantime, I am looking forward to a nice pay raise, better DCP contributions, more vacation and at least a few more years of attrition, followed by a few more years of good old LCC style stagnation (fences) prior to retirement. Beats the NIC!


seajay

If it is so simple and clear that the MOU kills the Nicolau. Why not clear state that? Why would usapa leave any doubt or room for interpretation? This has been going on for 5 because both sides read the language differently.

The east has the majority and have always said majority rules and you get to vote on seniority. You east pilots also say the company plays games with language. Why not plainly state up front and leave no doubt?

Why did usapa hide in your belief the MOU killed the Nicolau? Why did they state that the MOU was neutral and did not kill the MOU or implement DOH? Do you think it would have passed if the MOU plainly stated DOH would be used in the American merger for the us airways list?

 

[cleardirect]

The west voted in favor of the seniority integration process outlined in the MOU. They were well aware that no-where did it mention the NIC would be used. They wanted this more than the east. Time for us to move ahead.

The west voted in favor of an integration process between US Airways and American.

If as you believe the MOU kills the Nicolau why leave any doubt? Plainly state that in the MOU.

Why the cloak and dagger? Why not for once have usapa be honest, tell the truth and state the MOU kills the Nicolau instead is of saying it was neutral.

Should we never believe what usapa has to say if they continually lie to the members?

Is lying a defense in court? Well your honor we told the pilots one thing but winked and nodded to the east pilots it really meant something else. The west fell for it so we win.

Thing that will go over in a court of law?