Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

I'm dealing with the terrible twos. You mean it's not going to get better? Ahhhhhh poop.

Bean

Be of good cheer there Bean. You're About to see some magical years that allow you re-experience life/the world and everything through child's eyes, which is incredibly cool.....Well....until the teens, when it will sometimes take all you can spiritually manage to not just sell them to the nearest passing slave trader. The good news is, much like we eventually did, they'll grow past it.

 

[Beancounter]

Be of good cheer there Bean. You're About to see some magical years that allow you re-experience life/the world and everything through child's eyes, which is incredibly cool.....Well....until the teens, when it will sometimes take all you can spiritually manage to not just sell them to the nearest passing slave trader. The good news is, much like we eventually did, they'll grow past it.

Thanks for the words of wisdom. I'll try and remember that the next time im about to pull my hair out.

Bean

 

[EastUS1]

Thanks for the words of wisdom. I'll try and remember that the next time im about to pull my hair out.

Bean

My pleasure sir. Umm....other bad news is that there's no warranty on keeping all your hair, especially when the teens hit. Seriously though Bean; it's the overall most demanding and yet rewarding "job" any man can take on. Enjoy!

 

[cleardirect]

For all those who think it will be a merger of the Nic and APA list... explain this... If it will be a relative position integration (and that is what you believe in ) then system seniority lists do not matter in the least. Relative position according to category and status IS relative position, and depend entirely on the lists for each plane type rather than on the system seniority list. Do you not see that relative position is relative position, and you NOW have what you have? Or are you planning for the company to have an unrestricted mock system bid based on the Nic, with full bump and flush.. at the POR, all virtual of course to save training costs. Yeah, a mock system bid with bump and flush based on the Nic so the West can get the relative category and status position they deserve, before the relative position merger occurs.

Seriously are you this clueless or just pretentding?

You do know what relative seniority means right?

100 out of 1000 is 10%

1500 out of 15,000 is 10%

If you retain your relative seniority you keep what you had to start.

As I explained when I gave my opinion of how the integration would go. You can use the entire seniority list and integrate by relative seniority. Second option is use status. Captain/F/O/furloughed. If you want to break them down further you can have WB capt/NB capt/WB F/O/NB F/O.

There is no need for a bump and flush. That would be the right thing to do after 5 years but I don't see that happening.

If you want to use status you take the the total number in each category. 4500 american captains 2300 US Airways captains. ratio them together. 5500 ameican F/O's 2800 US Airways F/O's ratio together. It does not matter how deep the junior captain goes this method protects the position.

That is how Nicolau protected the WB for the east. There were not 517 WB captains but he protected the first 517 WB spots including F/O's. So if someone chooses to bypass they remain in their relative position with that spot protected. It also shows just how "desirable" some of those seat really are. If WB F/O goes very junior it must not be a good seat.

Bottom line if you are 50% on the Nicolau and you end up close to 50% on the combined list everything worked out. If like you east pilots want LOS you start out at 65% and end 30% on a combined list. You did not keep what you had before the merger.

As long as the Nicolau list is used for the american integration no law suit not much to complain about. No need for a bump and flush.

 

[nic4us]

That's what AOL and Dave is all about.

AOL is all about protecting the legal rights of the West pilots.

Sorry that conflicts with the illegal objectives of that scab union you helped form.

 

[EastUS1]

Seriously are you this clueless or just pretentding?

You do know what relative seniority means right?

If you honestly believed in relative seniority as ANY semblance of a principle; you would happy to see lists integrated based on where people actually sit and can bid, and not on some historical fantasy of years ago now.

Bottom Line = Zero earnest principles are in action here, and only the incessant blathering of a vile opportunist is to be heard from you.

 

[snapthis]

Yes. It is so very sad that your attempt at perverting the RLA and contorting unionism into nothing but an organized criminal unit failed so absolutely and spectacularly. If the West could just get over it and understand how right and pure your East centric objectives are, labor unionism would be saved and preserved as the bedrock of integrity, honesty, and righteousness that USAPA has so diligently pursued since its most honorable inception.

Looking forward to seeing all those grey, mustachioed smiling faces in Federal Court again.

Hey JJ, BTW, since you were a principle in this abortion that forcibly relieved your co workers out of Billion dollars in pay alone, you should know this:

What is your unions LUP for a abandoning the Nic award? That's a question that might come up. I hope you have a better answer this time. The Jury didn't seem very impressed with the last one. Is Poindexter arguing the case this time or will Seham show back up? He should, he owes you over two million dollars of services be failed to produce....almost like he stole it from you and your co workers....like a criminal organization would.

I seem to remember a story about a laptop which sprung legs and walked out of their union's office. It felt the need to run for cover...up. They associate themselves with an attorney who was accused of questionable billing practices. The father of this anti-union movement could not be located to defend the Bradford letter. A letter shows the true intent of forming a "union" to evade binding arbitration.

It certainly walks like a duck.

 

[nic4us]

[font=Arial']You continue to interject the DOH argument into the one about the NIC surviving. As of now, DOH still lives and the NIC is dead.[/font]

[font=Arial']DOH may or may not survive the current merger. Our arguments in the merger process will be made according to the CBL; which give us a wide range of reasonableness, despite your objections to the contrary. [/font]

[font=Arial']Greeter[/font]

Greeter,

Care to point out along the long line of court cases the scab union has prosecuted that a judge has ever vacated the NIC?

I suggest you look up Res Judicata and Collateral Estoppel.

The Nic is alive and well, the only system seniority list at LCC, and will be the list used for all LCC pilots in any future integration.

Now uscaba on the other hand...well that is a dead union walking.

 

[EastUS1]

The Nic is alive and well, the only system seniority list at LCC, and will be the list used for all LCC pilots in any future integration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ6VT7ciR1o

 

[nic4us]

[font=Arial'][font=Arial']So far there is no determination as to your supposed DFR. Not ripe.[/font][/font]

[font=Arial'][font=Arial']I am sure Marty has been hired for the job at the merger table, but as of now the position is not open. But keep paying him that retainer, just in case….[/font][/font]

[font=Arial'][font=Arial']For now USAPA, all persons included, is your bargaining agent.[/font][/font]

[font=Arial'][font=Arial']Greeter[/font][/font]

Now I know you are clueless.


Marty not at the merger table? Well junior, the West has two law firms on retainer for that job, and guess what, we will not need either one of them.

PS. We have already been invited to the SLI process.

 

[Phoenix]

Seriously are you this clueless or just pretentding?

You do know what relative seniority means right?

100 out of 1000 is 10%

1500 out of 15,000 is 10%

If you retain your relative seniority you keep what you had to start.

As I explained when I gave my opinion of how the integration would go. You can use the entire seniority list and integrate by relative seniority. Second option is use status. Captain/F/O/furloughed. If you want to break them down further you can have WB capt/NB capt/WB F/O/NB F/O.

There is no need for a bump and flush. That would be the right thing to do after 5 years but I don't see that happening.

If you want to use status you take the the total number in each category. 4500 american captains 2300 US Airways captains. ratio them together. 5500 ameican F/O's 2800 US Airways F/O's ratio together. It does not matter how deep the junior captain goes this method protects the position.

That is how Nicolau protected the WB for the east. There were not 517 WB captains but he protected the first 517 WB spots including F/O's. So if someone chooses to bypass they remain in their relative position with that spot protected. It also shows just how "desirable" some of those seat really are. If WB F/O goes very junior it must not be a good seat.

Bottom line if you are 50% on the Nicolau and you end up close to 50% on the combined list everything worked out. If like you east pilots want LOS you start out at 65% and end 30% on a combined list. You did not keep what you had before the merger.

As long as the Nicolau list is used for the american integration no law suit not much to complain about. No need for a bump and flush.

Oh come on Clear. Relative position according to plane category, CPT/FO, and active or furloughed.... that is WAY different than relative position on the Nic. Relative position according to the Nic would result in huge upheaval to pilot relative positions on types, CPT/FO, and status... that is why there is a dispute.. remember?

Don't stress yourself too much though. Just accept the fact that the company, APA, and USAPA all have the easy out that you voted in by 98%. They just mill around and do nothing but waist time until the process (and responsibility) is taken out of their hands. Breathe... Breathe... Breathe...

 

[snapthis]

Now I know you are clueless.


Marty not at the merger table? Well junior, the West has two law firms on retainer for that job, and guess what, we will not need either one of them.

PS. We have already been invited to the SLI process.

We'll have a card table set up for USAPA while the adults are discussing seniority integration.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I'm dealing with the terrible twos. You mean it's not going to get better? Ahhhhhh poop.

Bean

Theyre really the same....it's just a matter of which hole the "poop" comes out of!

 

[end_of_alpa]

AOL is all about protecting the legal rights of the West pilots.

Sorry that conflicts with the illegal objectives of that scab union you helped form.

We have legal rights, too!

 

[nic4us]

We have legal rights, too!

Oh, most certainly.

How about you EoA, did you read the complaint usapa filed in the bankruptcy court?


Seems usapa, an organization that has already been told once by the bankruptcy judge to go away, would like to strip the West pilots (who btw they have a DFR) of their rights to legal recourse.


Man, the idiots over there just can't help themselves.

I think the $40 million plus the entire usapa treasury should just about do it. Of course that is no where near the cost usapa has inflicted, but it will go a long way to driving home just how stupid the east was in this whole..."we will trade a seniority for a cost neutral contract" scheme.