Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Portly Dorman]

A NATION CHALLENGED: THE CUTBACKS
A NATION CHALLENGED: THE CUTBACKS; US Airways' Dim Outlook Deteriorates
By LAURENCE ZUCKERMAN
Published: September 20, 2001
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WASHINGTON, Sept. 19— It was only a week ago that the annual meeting of US Airways promised to be a nasty confrontation between management and union workers angry over executive pay and the airline's strategy after the collapse of its proposed merger with United Airlines.

Instead, anger gave way to desperation today, as union leaders used the meeting to plead with management not to cut jobs too hastily and to work with them on ensuring the airline's survival.

''This crisis does not have to generate the worst we can offer,'' said Chris Beebe, leader of the US Airways chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association, standing in his dark blue uniform to address Stephen M. Wolf, the chairman of US Airways, and about 60 other shareholders and employees attending the meeting at the Capitol Hilton here. ''We want to work with you in the common goal of bringing US Airways back up to 100 percent.''

But Mr. Wolf said he had no choice but to follow through on plans announced on Tuesday to lay off 11,000 workers and reduce its flight schedule 20 percent. ''What we are doing, you might say, is draconian, but our objective is to keep the entity alive,'' Mr. Wolf said. As with the other major carriers, he explained, the steep decline in airline traffic after last week's terrorist attacks is draining cash from company coffers at ''an alarming rate.''

The future of US Airways, the No. 6 carrier, based in Arlington, Va., was in doubt even before those extraordinary events. With higher costs than its rivals but a smaller route network, US Airways has been hurt badly by competition from Southwest Airlines and other low-fare carriers that have expanded on the East Coast in recent years.

But the fallout from the attacks has been a bigger blow to US Airways than any other airline. It is the biggest airline at Ronald Reagan National Airport here, the only major airport that remains closed. It also specializes in short flights, which are more easily supplanted by train, bus and car trips.

US Airways shares fell 16 cents today, to close at $5.65; the stock has dropped 51 percent since the markets reopened Monday.

Mr. Wolf would not say how much money US Airways was losing, and he declined to say how much was left of the $1.25 billion in cash it had on hand at the end of June.

He even declined to say whether he would stay to lead the airline through its current crisis. Under intense questioning from several shareholders, Mr. Wolf said that neither he nor two other top executives would exercise their rights, under terms of the abandoned merger with United, to collect $45 million in severance pay by retiring in November.

Mr. Wolf said the airline's future depended on how quickly passengers return.

Captain Beebe, the union leader, stressed that US Airways pilots would never fly if they thought there was any danger, a theme that was echoed by other employees. ''If anyone would like to fly with me tonight, my flights are safe,'' said Jacqueline Cornish, who has been a flight attendant at US Airways for 24 years and was to work a flight to Berlin this evening. ''I run a tight ship.''

She implored Mr. Wolf to tell her what she could do to get more passengers to return. ''Should we change our uniforms?'' she asked.

Photo: US Airways' chairman, Stephen M. Wolf, addresses shareholders. (Carol T. Powers for The New York Times)

 

[Portly Dorman]

More for Claxon...

US Air, Denied United Merger, to Sketch New Strategy
By KENNETH N. GILPIN
Published: August 15, 2001
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In 1998, top executives from US Airways met with analysts and promised to transform the airline into a ''world-class carrier of choice.''

Two years later, the same executives said they had decided to sell US Airways to UAL, the parent company of United Airlines.

This morning, less than a month after the Justice Department blocked the deal with United, Rakesh Gangwal, the chief executive of US Airways, and Stephen M. Wolf, its chairman, will sketch out the airline's future to an increasingly skeptical group of Wall Street analysts.

In advance of the meeting, the analysts offered a laundry list of things that US Airways could or should do to buttress its position in potentially lucrative East Coast markets against bigger carriers like American and United and lower-cost competitors like Southwest Airlines, AirTran and JetBlue Airways.

But even as they suggested options, the analysts seemed less than confident that US Airways could put together a coherent strategy and pull it off.

''The level of cynicism in the investment community about this airline is pretty high,'' said James M. Higgins, an analyst with Credit Suisse First Boston. ''Can they prosper? No. Can they justify growing? No. I don't expect any major breakthroughs.''

Investors seemed less than optimistic before the meeting. On the New York Stock Exchange, shares of the US Airways Group fell 36 cents yesterday, to $17.65. They are down more than 50 percent this year.

In the wake of the collapsed deal with United, US Airways is not likely to seek another merger partner, the analysts said. And management has ruled out breaking up the company.

To function as a stand-alone enterprise, US Airways needs to do several things fairly quickly, the analysts said.

It must cut costs to deal with the sluggish economy and slumping business travel. It would have to become part of a global alliance to compete with big domestic carriers. And it must significantly expand its fleet of regional jets to take on the low-cost carriers.

Robert Johnson, a board member at US Airways, said some of these strategies would most likely be part of management's presentation to analysts.

In an interview published on Monday in Aviation Daily, Mr. Johnson predicted that the presentation would focus on ''strategic growth of regional jet flying, new alliances and lower costs'' as the keys to the airline's future.

US Airways indicated last week, when it announced it would post a third-quarter loss exceeding $160 million, that it was in a cost-cutting mode. The carrier said it expected to take a pretax charge around $405 million to write down assets.

Further steps are likely to be disclosed at the meeting this morning, the analysts said.

''I think they will ground a significant part of their fleet,'' said Julius Maldutis of CIBC World Markets. In addition, he said, ''it would not surprise me if they cancel or postpone some of the 50 Airbus aircraft due for delivery this year, and the 50 scheduled to be delivered in 2003.''

The analysts were not optimistic that the company could win meaningful concessions from its unions to cut labor costs. ''The company might seek labor concessions,'' said Samuel Buttrick of UBS Warburg. ''I am not particularly hopeful in that regard. Labor will say, 'Been there, done that.' ''

Mr. Higgins of Credit Suisse First Boston said: ''To get labor to come around and give concessions on productivity and pay would be a good start. But I think their labor groups are in complete denial about the company's ability to compete.''

Joining an international alliance would be a plus, the analysts said.

''US Airways is the largest domestic carrier without any important participation in a global alliance,'' Mr. Buttrick said. ''Getting participation is on the short list.''

Mr. Higgins said US Airways would be most comfortable joining the Star alliance, led by United Airlines. ''That is the one they could contribute the most to, and which most needs them,'' he said.

And while US Airways' pilots may resist efforts to reduce their salaries, they have displayed a willingness to negotiate an expansion of the airline's regional jet fleet. It remains to be seen whether they would be willing to endorse the sort of aggressive expansion plan that US Airways management would like to carry out.

The airline now has 70 regional jets. Management would like that to grow to 300.

''Relative to the size of its system, US Airways has a greater need for regional jets than any other carrier,'' said Brian Harris, an analyst with Salomon Smith Barney. ''The East Coast is much richer in terms of small and medium-sized cities than other parts of the country, and they are ideal candidates for regional jets.''

With more than $1 billion in cash, US Airways can afford to take some time to put its strategy into practice, the analysts said. But it cannot wait long.

''They have a year or two,'' said Raymond E. Neidl of ABN Amro Securities. ''They still have time, but they don't have time to fiddle.''

 

[Portly Dorman]

More for Claxon...

US Air files for bankruptcy
Airline gets OK for $75M in emergency financing; shareholders to be wiped out.
August 12, 2002: 5:04 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - A federal bankruptcy judge approved $75 million in emergency financing Monday to allow bankrupt US Airways Group Inc. to restructure its finances and maintain operations through September.

US Airways filed for bankruptcy Sunday, saying it will continue to operate while it tries to restructure its finances and emerge from protection early next year.


While the company vowed that its customers would not be affected by the filing, shareholders are likely to have their holdings wiped out by the filing. Shares of US Air (U: Research, Estimates) did not trade Monday on the New York Stock Exchange, which said trading on the exchange would remain halted while it completes an evaluation of how the stock complies or no longer complies with listing requirements. In both pre-market and after-market trading on Instinet, shares were off $1.95, or 80 percent, to 50 cents.

Other airline stocks retreated Monday, although airline analysts suggested the filing could be good news for other carriers as it gave airlines more leverage in union negotiations on new contracts. But concerns that UAL Corp. (UAL: down $1.40 to $3.80, Research, Estimates), parent of No. 2 United Airlines, could be the next to file for bankruptcy protection sent those shares sharply lower as well.

The filing is not a shock. US Airways was in financial trouble before Sept. 11 and took a harder financial hit from the attack than other major carriers. It warned in May in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing that bankruptcy was a possibility.

The filing was made Sunday in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, which approved a series of temporary, or "bridge," relief orders, including continuing US Airways' Dividend Miles frequent flier program, paying employees, paying vendors, honoring obligations to other airlines, and maintaining bank accounts.

Monday the court approved $500 million in debtor financing from a group led by Credit Suisse First Boston and Bank of America. It also ended leases on 33 aircraft no longer used by the carrier. Company attorneys also revealed that top management at the carrier would be taking 20 percent pay cuts.

US Air also announced Sunday it will receive a $200 million equity investment from Texas Pacific Group that will give the firm a 38 percent stake in US Airways upon its emergence from Chapter 11 protection.

"In the face of an uncertain and trying time for the industry, we have been impressed with the major strides taken by US Airways' management and employees to significantly improve the competitiveness of the airline," said Richard P. Schifter, a Texas Pacific partner, in a statement released by US Air. "Our capital and industry experience can contribute to the company's prompt emergence and long-term prosperity."

According to its bankruptcy filing, US Air's largest unsecured creditors include bankers J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. (JPM: Research, Estimates) at $71.4 million, and Wilmington Trust Co. (WL: Research, Estimates) at just under $50 million, as well as information technology service company Electronic Data Systems Corp. (EDS: Research, Estimates) at $46.9 million.

EDS issued a statement saying its total exposure to US Air's bankruptcy filing is about $140 million, but that it is in discussions with US Air about its contracts and that it expects to continue to work for the airline and to be paid for its services. It also said it does not believe that, "restructuring of the IT services agreement, if any, to be material to its (EDS') results of operations or financial position."

US Air is expecting a $1 billion collateralized loan backed by a federal guarantee that has been conditionally approved by the Air Transportation Stabilization Board, provided the company is able to get cost-cutting accords with its unionized employees.

US Airways has been in the process of negotiating lower wage agreements with its unions, and had already won concessions from the pilots and flight attendants. The International Association of Machinists has agreed to present a company proposal to rank and file for consideration.

"Our members will not give up on US Airways, and neither should anyone else," IAM General Vice President Robert Roach Jr. said. "We believe US Airways can successfully restructure while it continues to serve the traveling public and provide employment for our members."

Related stories

UAL next bankruptcy?
US Airways defers payments
US Airways may file bankruptcy

The only significant union that has yet to agree to either concessions or a rank and file vote is the Communications Workers of America, which represents its customer service workers. The union said it is committed to continued negotiations with the company. Talks were scheduled for Monday, the union said.

The company has agreed to union representation on its board of directors in return for concessions. It is also vowing not to seek to use bankruptcy court powers to void labor contracts.

"We recognize the impact the sacrifices they are making will have on them and their families," CEO David Siegel said. "In exchange for their participation, we have committed that this will be a labor-friendly Chapter 11 reorganization, in which we will honor new agreements that have been ratified, and provide labor a voice in the company's governance."

US Airways says it expects the court-supervised restructuring will be accomplished on a "fast track" basis, and that it will emerge from Chapter 11 protection in the first quarter of 2003. In its petition, US Airways says it listed assets of $7.81 billion and liabilities of about $7.83 billion.

US Airways has tried to cut lease rates on some of its 311 planes, but was having trouble, Senior Vice President Chris Chiames said.

"We've been putting off payments on aircraft for going on two months now," he told reporters. "The financial condition of the airline was such that it was unsustainable to continue to operate with such a high cost involving older aircraft that have high lease rates and those kinds of things."

Financial woes predate Sept. 11
The airline was already in severe financial trouble and in need of restructuring before the Sept. 11 terrorist attack. The carrier's executives admitted that it was in a difficult niche of the market, not large enough to be a major national carrier, not small enough to compete as a low-cost carrier.

It has no alliance partners with which to share customers, and it has had only one profitable quarter since June 1999, as it posted losses while competitors were still recording strong earnings.

It tried to sell itself to UAL for $4.3 billion, or $60 a share, in a deal announced in early 2000 that would have been the industry's largest merger. But after federal antitrust regulators blocked that purchase, it announced a restructuring plan that called for the use of smaller planes and a lower wage scale for union members.

Before it had a chance to move on that plan it was hit harder than any other carrier by the Sept. 11 terrorist attack. Its key hub at Reagan National Airport in Washington, D.C., stayed closed weeks after other airports opened, and it saw a loss in business on its key Washington-New York shuttle to Amtrak's new high-speed rail service, which some fliers felt was more convenient due to the airlines' tougher check-in procedures.

The airline lost $17.35 a share last year, and $7.86 a share in the first six months of this year. Analysts surveyed by earnings tracker First Call were expecting second-half losses of $6.27 a share, and 2003 losses of $6.24 a share. The airline said that its prospects should improve with the advantages of a bankruptcy filing.

Click here for a look at airline stocks

"We feel that we're in a good position, that this will make us a stronger airline," Chiames said. "We'll be able to clean up our financial status with regard to balance sheets and aircraft that are too expensive to fly, and emerge as a stronger, more viable competitor on the East Coast, where most of our flights are operating."

After the bankruptcy announcement, brokerage firm Merrill Lynch's airline analyst, Michael Linenberg, said his firm would drop coverage of the bankrupt air carrier.

-- CNN Correspondent Patty Davis contributed to this report.


--*Disclaimer

SPECIAL:

 

[Pi brat]

With more than $1 billion in cash, US Airways can afford to take some time to put its strategy into practice, the analysts said. But it cannot wait long.

''They have a year or two,'' said Raymond E. Neidl of ABN Amro Securities. ''They still have time, but they don't have time to fiddle.''

But AWA had already applied for it's ATSB loan hadn't it. When did they ever have a billion dollars? It would have been 2.9 billion cash had Wolf not pxxxxx 1.9 million on his stock buy back.

 

[EastUS1]

It's more likely that Harper will have USAPA's assets frozen prior to the damages phase.

Is that scheduled for the same day that AOL's secret squadron first takes to the sky?

 

[cleardirect]

To me, it's quite simple. APA seems to have ruled out DOH from the get go and it's looking like Arbitration is a given.

Apa will put out their list. USAPA will put down the East and West lists. The 3 person arbitrators will rule after giving Marty his due. Maybe they'll agree with USAPA maybe they'll agree with AOL - who knows? But, in the end, I don't see how anyone can sue after the Arbitration panel rules on way or the other.

I'm curious who trumps whom. Would a win in PHX trump the Federal Arbitration panel? It took Silver, What?, 18 months to decide not to decide. It'll all be over before AOL gets it's day in court.

Very good! An eastie that is starting to put the pieces together.

Correct the APA has ruled out DOH and negotiating. The final list will be an arbitrated slotted or ratioed list.

APA will bring their list, usapa will a list. While usapa would like to use two lists I think since no one will answer my question about how usapa can argue for two lists and represent both fairly that is not going to happen.

To answer your question yes federal law trumps arbitration. If an arbitrator tried to put all women at the bottom of a list because they were women federal discrimination laws would overrule, if a federal judge says use the Nicolau list the panel will use the Nicolau list. It will not be the arbitration panel that decides what usapa uses it will be a federal court or the APA when they become our bargaining agent.
You have two key statements in your post.
The first.
But, in the end, I don't see how anyone can sue after the Arbitration panel rules on way or the other.

Thus the reason for the DJ in PHX and the company DJ on appeal. The matter needs to be decided BEFORE any US Airways list is turned over to the arbitration panel. The company mentioned this in the Paul Jones letter. The last thing the company and the APA wants and even the arbitration panel wants is to put in all the time and money to get a list. Then find out later a court found usapa guilty of DFR and have to redo the SLI after the fact.

This is what Marty meant when he sent the letters about stopping the merger. Except usapa is too blinded by it’s single issue, too stupid to understand or intentionally misrepresenting what the letters say. The letters Marty sent warn that the seniority integration (merger) will be stopped until it can be decided by the courts. Not the corporate merger. Usapa is going to look pretty foolish when that is explained to the court, that usapa was trying to scare the investors and use the BK court to take away the west’s right.

Your second statement plays into your first.
It took Silver, What?, 18 months to decide not to decide. It'll all be over before AOL gets its day in court.

Yes it could take the court 18-24 months to decide this case. That brings us back to Marty’s warning and letters to the parties. He will ask for an injunction on the SLI process until the court decides which list usapa can use BEFORE going to the arbitration panel. Stopping the seniority merger not the corporate merger.

Here is where the critical thinks comes in. We all know that in order to make the new American airline work and the new contract affordable Parker has to put the two airlines together sooner rather than later. An injunction delaying the combine airline would cost the company a ton of money not to mention the PR black eye that Parker fails as a merger CEO again. We also know that money is the single motivator for Parker and his actions. Parker can say he is neutral regarding seniority but when it comes to costing him money and putting the company at risk. He will have to tell usapa no three way, no DOH nothing except the Nicolau. The APA is not going to wait around 18-24 months before starting the SLI process. The APA, unlike usapa wants to integrate.

The west and the company have wanted to let a court decide this issue. It has been usapa avoiding the answer and using legal loopholes to delay the answer. How about usapa just waves the ripeness issue and we get to an answer? If usapa thinks they are solid ground and they have stated that the Nicolau will never be used, let’s get to it.

All parties to this deal need it completed quickly. Going to court and an injunction delays everything. As you said what list does the arbitration panel use and will everyone wait 18-24 months? Using the Nicolau removes all of those obstacles, delay and legal liability. A three way delays and costs money.

You guys should know by now. Don't get between Parker and his money.

 

[traderjake]

http://www.airlineda...its-snag/nWwG3/


"There are new problems for American Airlines as it tries to get out of bankruptcy and merge with US Airways.

The Justice Department is objecting to plans for employee raises and an exit package for the company’s CEO."



luvthe9, could you have a talk with the Justice Department and explain to them that we deserve a bigger raise than we got?

 

[Graceson]

Questions:

When an immovable object collides with an irresistible force, who decides the remedy or outcome?

What is the definition of "to ratify?"

Are ratification and arbitration both part of the process?

What makes ratification immovable, and "final and binding" unstoppable?

When "ratification" collides with "final and binding," who decides the remedy or outcome?

Is that deciding entity(s) then an extention of the process?

Is the ultimate remedy the final remedy to the process?

 

[Pi brat]

http://www.airlineda...its-snag/nWwG3/


"There are new problems for American Airlines as it tries to get out of bankruptcy and merge with US Airways.

The Justice Department is objecting to plans for employee raises and an exit package for the company’s CEO."



luvthe9, could you have a talk with the Justice Department and explain to them why we deserve a bigger raise than we got?

From what I can find I don't believe it is the pilots or other union negotiated plans they are talking about. From the WSJ:

"On Feb. 22, eight days after the merger was announced as the vehicle for AMR to exit from bankruptcy protection, the two airlines filed a motion outlining some salary and benefit increases for AMR's nonunion customer-service, reservations and support employee, as well as for front-line management and senior executives. For the executives, the arrangements include incentive plans, awards related to the merger integration, severance benefits and a retention program."

Retention program. Code for massive management payouts.

BTW, does this "deripen" the DFR since it shows the merger is not a given?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Very good! An eastie that is starting to put the pieces together.

Correct the APA has ruled out DOH and negotiating. The final list will be an arbitrated slotted or ratioed list.

APA will bring their list, usapa will a list. While usapa would like to use two lists I think since no one will answer my question about how usapa can argue for two lists and represent both fairly that is not going to happen.

To answer your question yes federal law trumps arbitration. If an arbitrator tried to put all women at the bottom of a list because they were women federal discrimination laws would overrule, if a federal judge says use the Nicolau list the panel will use the Nicolau list. It will not be the arbitration panel that decides what usapa uses it will be a federal court or the APA when they become our bargaining agent.
You have two key statements in your post.
The first.
But, in the end, I don't see how anyone can sue after the Arbitration panel rules on way or the other.

Thus the reason for the DJ in PHX and the company DJ on appeal. The matter needs to be decided BEFORE any US Airways list is turned over to the arbitration panel. The company mentioned this in the Paul Jones letter. The last thing the company and the APA wants and even the arbitration panel wants is to put in all the time and money to get a list. Then find out later a court found usapa guilty of DFR and have to redo the SLI after the fact.

This is what Marty meant when he sent the letters about stopping the merger. Except usapa is too blinded by it’s single issue, too stupid to understand or intentionally misrepresenting what the letters say. The letters Marty sent warn that the seniority integration (merger) will be stopped until it can be decided by the courts. Not the corporate merger. Usapa is going to look pretty foolish when that is explained to the court, that usapa was trying to scare the investors and use the BK court to take away the west’s right.

Your second statement plays into your first.
It took Silver, What?, 18 months to decide not to decide. It'll all be over before AOL gets its day in court.

Yes it could take the court 18-24 months to decide this case. That brings us back to Marty’s warning and letters to the parties. He will ask for an injunction on the SLI process until the court decides which list usapa can use BEFORE going to the arbitration panel. Stopping the seniority merger not the corporate merger.

Here is where the critical thinks comes in. We all know that in order to make the new American airline work and the new contract affordable Parker has to put the two airlines together sooner rather than later. An injunction delaying the combine airline would cost the company a ton of money not to mention the PR black eye that Parker fails as a merger CEO again. We also know that money is the single motivator for Parker and his actions. Parker can say he is neutral regarding seniority but when it comes to costing him money and putting the company at risk. He will have to tell usapa no three way, no DOH nothing except the Nicolau. The APA is not going to wait around 18-24 months before starting the SLI process. The APA, unlike usapa wants to integrate.

The west and the company have wanted to let a court decide this issue. It has been usapa avoiding the answer and using legal loopholes to delay the answer. How about usapa just waves the ripeness issue and we get to an answer? If usapa thinks they are solid ground and they have stated that the Nicolau will never be used, let’s get to it.

All parties to this deal need it completed quickly. Going to court and an injunction delays everything. As you said what list does the arbitration panel use and will everyone wait 18-24 months? Using the Nicolau removes all of those obstacles, delay and legal liability. A three way delays and costs money.

You guys should know by now. Don't get between Parker and his money.

WHEREFORE, USAPA prays that this Court:

1. Grant judgment in favor of USAPA and (1) declare that Leonidas, LLC has

impermissibly interfered with the Bankruptcy Court’s jurisdiction and mandate, (2) declare that

the Action violates the automatic stay embodied in 11 U.S.C. § 362(a)(3), and (3) preliminarily

and permanently enjoin Leonidas, LLC from interfering with the Bankruptcy Court’s jurisdiction

over the Debtors’ chapter 11 cases and the Merger by prosecuting the Action.

2. Award USAPA the costs it incurs in pursuing this case, including its attorneys’

fees; and

3. Award such other relief as the Court deems just and proper.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

45. Absent issuance of a preliminary and permanent injunction enjoining Defendant

from prosecuting the Action in any court, Debtors will be irreparably harmed. If the Merger has

not been consummated by December 13, 2013, the parties can terminate the Merger (under

certain conditions). Such termination would result in, among other things, a substantial delay in

the conclusion of Debtors’ chapter 11 cases. The plan of reorganization is going to be, in some

form, based on the merger between AMR and US Airways. Central to the success of the plan of

reorganization is the orderly integration of the pilot workforce. Without the Merger, Debtors

would need to develop an alternative to their plan for exiting bankruptcy. This too would cause a

substantial delay to the conclusion of these chapter 11 cases. The remedies available at law are

inadequate to compensate for that injury.

 

[Metroyet]

Any delay to the sli will last exactly as long as the last day of USCABAs pathetic existence. APA is taking over way before the entire court process works it through. APA knows the law, their liabilities to it, and has sane leadership to boot. APA is never going to pursue DOH or spend a dime fighting the nic. The lists will be integrated using the Nic as it is the ONLY legal option, like it or not.

It will be up to the Eastholes to form an LLC, fund it, find another scab lawyer that tells them what they want to hear, and attempt to climb the Mount Everest of DFR claims....which will never make it past preliminary review. Imagine, forcibly stripping over a billion dollars away from your constituents, forcing 1/3 rd of an entire career ofLOA93 upon your colleagues for what? Absolutely, positively NOTHING. A failure as epic as the waste. Remember to thank Lee Seham and the founding morons Bradford, King, Sewer, et.al next time you see them.

Their lies cost you all dearly.

 

[cleardirect]

Questions:

When an immovable object collides with an irresistible force, who decides the remedy or outcome?

What is the definition of "to ratify?"

Are ratification and arbitration both part of the process?

What makes ratification immovable, and "final and binding" unstoppable?

When "ratification" collides with "final and binding," who decides the remedy or outcome?

Is that deciding entity(s) then an extention of the process?

Is the ultimate remedy the final remedy to the process?

What precisely was to be ratified?

No. Two entirely different processes for two entirely different purposes.

Again what exactly was to be ratified? BTW we all just ratified a new agreement, so you got your vote. Final and binding was already completed.

Same answer. What exactly was to be ratified? A vote was taken and it passed therefore a new agreement has been ratified.

There was never supposed to be an extension of the process.

Final and binding is the final remedy. The east has frustrated the implementation. But since we have ratified a new agreement we can all move forward now.

 

[traderjake]

From what I can find I don't believe it is the pilots or other union negotiated plans they are talking about.

You're probable right, the Justice Department is too busy shipping guns into Mexico to be more specific.

 

[cleardirect]

Any delay to the sli will last exactly as long as the last day of USCABAs pathetic existence. APA is taking over way before the entire court process works it through. APA knows the law, their liabilities to it, and has sane leadership to boot. APA is never going to pursue DOH or spend a dime fighting the nic. The lists will be integrated using the Nic as it is the ONLY legal option, like it or not.

It will be up to the Eastholes to form an LLC, fund it, find another scab lawyer that tells them what they want to hear, and attempt to climb the Mount Everest of DFR claims....which will never make it past preliminary review. Imagine, forcibly stripping over a billion dollars away from your constituents, forcing 1/3 rd of an entire career ofLOA93 upon your colleagues for what? Absolutely, positively NOTHING. A failure as epic as the waste. Remember to thank Lee Seham and the founding morons Bradford, King, Sewer, et.al next time you see them.

Their lies cost you all dearly.

Finding a lawyer to take the case would be interesting.

I think the east pilots burned the bridge with Seham. I would love to have the east pilots pick O'Dwyer or Shamanski to represent them.

Well your honor the current lawyer also was supposed to represent the west pilots fairly but here we have the same guy now representing only east pilots. Exactly the same way using the same arguments as before. That should go over well with a jury.

Who would the east pilots get? Their reputation proceeds them in the legal world. Not sure how many law firms would be willing ot take on that case without a big retainer up front.