Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Another lie. Do the math

I did do the math.

Claxon joined Aug 1, 2011. 20 months 1864 posts. 93.2 posts per month.

Cleardirect joined May 24 2008 58 months. 5581 post. 96.2 posts per month.

Three posts per month difference and you think I am addicted but you are not. Denial!!!!

Especially for someone that is not a pilot for US Airways and no dog in the fight.

Just because you don't like the facts does not make it a lie.

 

[Claxon]

Said the guy who does not work here and has no dog in the fight. Guess what you have almost as many posts per month as I do.

Look in that mirror if you think there is an addiction problem.

I would imagine your co workers walk the other way when they see you. One could only imagine their reaction if you walked in a room with golf clubs.
Your disposition is more suited to you being a postal worker. Angry, hostile, surly.
Prone to possibly............

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

LOS. So that is your entire answer? How usapa can represent ALL US Airways pilot fairly, LOS.

What would you do with the A/E flow through? On the list or not?
What would you do with the west pilots on the east list?
You are willing to tell east pilots that they need to be junior to furloughed pilots?

Just an example of what a LOS list looks like.

Number one east 1/1973
Number one APA 1/73
Number one west 6/1983

What is extremely hilarious is the point you fail to "EVER" bring up , you have to have an ATP to get hired, (AVG 25yrs old) and get this a mandatory retirement age! 65! NOT A RATIO A FINITE NUMBER! Looking at EAST and APA LEGACY carriers makes a good argument for LOS/DOH both groups in the 25yr old range Making number on WEST 10 years their junior 15 years old when they were hired , giving the WEST pilots over 10 more years of attrition and growth, with proper C's & R's a very feasible solution!

 

[cleardirect]

What is extremely hilarious is the point you fail to "EVER" bring up , you have to have an ATP to get hired, (AVG 25yrs old) and get this a mandatory retirement age! 65! NOT A RATIO A FINITE NUMBER! Looking at EAST and APA LEGACY carriers makes a good argument for LOS/DOH both groups in the 25yr old range Making number on WEST 10 years their junior 15 years old when they were hired , giving the WEST pilots over 10 more years of attrition and growth, with proper C's & R's a very feasible solution!

Umm! What?

Is there a thought in there or just words randomly typed?

 

[cactusboy53]

I did do the math.

Claxon joined Aug 1, 2011. 20 months 1864 posts. 93.2 posts per month.

Cleardirect joined May 24 2008 58 months. 5581 post. 96.2 posts per month.

Three posts per month difference and you think I am addicted but you are not. Denial!!!!

Especially for someone that is not a pilot for US Airways and no dog in the fight.

Just because you don't like the facts does not make it a lie.

Also not taking into account his other likely monikers "Apollo" & "Sumadarson". Constant USAPA white noise.

 

[Pi brat]

Also not taking into account his other likely monikers "Apollo" & "Sumadarson". Constant USAPA white noise.

Since you are a rep does that make you USAPA west white noise?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Since you are a rep does that make you USAPA west white noise?

No that makes them "WAKE" up! Hilarious, how' BOBBY B's Golf lessons goin?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Umm! What?

Is there a thought in there or just words randomly typed?

Just little facts you fail to recognize, due to your inability to recognize your situational awareness that is all!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Umm! What?

Is there a thought in there or just words randomly typed?

I Will restate for your younger mind, in 1973 my guess is you probably didn't have anything close to the qualifications to be hired at AA or USAIRWAYS, in 1983, those people at AWA didn't either, FINITE numbers at HIRE age = 25 RETIREMENT age=65, they are not ratios, they are not percenteges, To ratio a list is to bias attrition, it is not equitable, LOS and proper C&R's is the gold standard, I do not want anything AA, or AWA, brought to this crossroads, but no one member of the remaining group should be displaced or reduced due to the non revenue dowturn of the others group!

 

[cactusboy53]

No that makes them "WAKE" up! Hilarious, how' BOBBY B's Golf lessons goin?

Clearly better than your anger management sessions. You kids sure seem to be a bit more rankled than usual. WYE oh WYE to you fail to see the errors of your ways?

 

[Freighterguynow]

Just an example of what a LOS list looks like.

Number one east 1/1973
Number one APA 1/73
Number one west 6/1983

By LOS the number on west pilots goes from number one to 875. How does that maintain his career expectation?




Well, for roughly 10,000 AMR pilots (remains to be seen how many take the recall) and 3500 East pilots the list dovetails quite nicely. After all, thats almost 90% of the list. Further down the line fences make a good solution.

Your number one pilot being bumped to 875? His career expectation was a narrowbody in PHX under Kirby rates. Pretty big step up to a 777 any where in the country and MOU pay. I do not see the damage but yet another feeble land grab.

The overwhelming problem is the West perception that the slighest detriment you may suffer is a DFR.

It' is not. Unions do it all the time. Pensions are terminated impacting the worker with 30 years vested in the plan far more than the one with 2. Protections are negioted away - plants close. Those workers protected are now laid off.

Just has to meet a reasonable standard.

Right?

 

[traderjake]

Well, for roughly 10,000 AMR pilots (remains to be seen how many take the recall) and 3500 East pilots the list dovetails quite nicely.

Do you think APA wants to put East N/B Captains above their W/B Captains?

 

[cleardirect]

Just an example of what a LOS list looks like.

Number one east 1/1973
Number one APA 1/73
Number one west 6/1983

By LOS the number on west pilots goes from number one to 875. How does that maintain his career expectation?




Well, for roughly 10,000 AMR pilots (remains to be seen how many take the recall) and 3500 East pilots the list dovetails quite nicely. After all, thats almost 90% of the list. Further down the line fences make a good solution.

Your number one pilot being bumped to 875? His career expectation was a narrowbody in PHX under Kirby rates. Pretty big step up to a 777 any where in the country and MOU pay. I do not see the damage but yet another feeble land grab.

The overwhelming problem is the West perception that the slighest detriment you may suffer is a DFR.

It' is not. Unions do it all the time. Pensions are terminated impacting the worker with 30 years vested in the plan far more than the one with 2. Protections are negioted away - plants close. Those workers protected are now laid off.

Just has to meet a reasonable standard.

Right?

Did you miss this part of my post?

The APA pilot currently number 200 (2.3%) LOS places 875 east pilots senior to him resulting in now being 7.2% on a combined list. How does LOS maintain his career expectation?

The APA pilot number 500 has over 1000 east pilots senior to him by LOS. 1/3 of east pilots would be in the top 10 of a combined list.

That east pilot who was 25.7% on a stand alone east list would now be 7.2%. Does LOS maintain his career expectation or does it give him a windfall?

How does number 200 APA having 875 east pilots ahead of him "dovetails quite nicely?

How does going from 25.7% out of 3500 to 7.2% our of 15,000 dovetail quite nicely?

The number 500 APA pilot would lose over 1000 number to east pilots ahead of him. 1/3 of the east pilots in the top 10% of the combined list. At the same time in the top 1500 pilots LOS only has 58 west pilots.

Does not sound like a very smooth and equitable distribution of seniority. What possible defense would usapa have to argue over 1000 east pilot and 58 west pilots in that strata? 30% of the east and 3% of the west. usapa does have to represent ALL US Airways pilots fairly and equally. That would appear to be more than just a slight detriment. Using the Nicolau eliminates that problem.

What about all those WB fences you have been talking about? Those will keep him out of the 777.

Moving down the list. Junior 320 group II captain. West captain currently 917 (55.4%) LOS 9210 (61.4%) East captain 2366 (69.7%) LOS 4627 (30.8%) A 38.9% increase in seniority. How does going from 70% down the list to having 70% of the APA list below him dovetail nicely? How is a gain of almost 40% not a windfall and maintain career expectation?

In the top 33% of the combined list 70% are east pilots.

Do you think the APA would negotiate for 2366 east pilots to be placed senior to 6400 APA pilots? Do you think an arbitration panel is going to create a list that is so obviously unbalanced?

What kind of un-holy 99 year fence do you think could ever make that right? What leverage would usapa have to get the company to accept anything close to making a 40 % gain workable?


Umm, pension termination are not union decisions.

The overwhelming problem is east entitlement attitude that DOH/LOS is the one and only thing that matters in an integration.

 

[Metroyet]

The East is going to, once again, be SHOCKED that their demands during sli were patently ignored. Better keep the CIRP team at Alert (assuming the APA even HAS one...and would be willing to waste the fpl on something so stupid.)

The day is rapidly approaching when the East will be relegated to the ignored minority status. This is going to be hysterical.

 

[traderjake]

This, like United and Continental, is going to arbitration and no arbitrator is going to give DOH/LOS.