Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Finding a lawyer to take the case would be interesting.

.

Who would the east pilots get? Their reputation proceeds them in the legal world. Not sure how many law firms would be willing ot take on that case without a big retainer up front.

See, there are so few lawyers around and they never take a case they can't win and they are always worried about their clients reputations............I imagine Seham would love to return to the trough.

You guys showed the way. One big contribution to start the way then a few thousand a piece to keep it going. Some of our lowest paid pilots are still funding the MDA suit.

 

[fatherabraham]

Cd,

Have you heard that some of us actually are on short call and do not have internet 24/7. I proactively informed you 48 hrs ago that i had plans AND reply MAY be later. Then got quick called.

Using a smartphone on the road so i will be brief and assuredly anti climatic.

As i have said many times before, if i were king all sli would be based on doh/los among majors with fences for wide bodies. For me its just a question of ethics being from a long family history of union ethics where los always determined shift bidding and the inevitable layoff / return to work in the auto industry.

The concept of a current furlough coming back to merged group w/o being placed in los order is disgusting imo. Btw.....have never been furloughed !

So my reply is much briefer and not based on based on my windfall wishes as yours was.

Rather simplistic concept eh? Am not saying particular circumstances do not justify further fences.

There is your reply......i am good for my word.

Honest Abe

 

[snapthis]

Is that scheduled for the same day that AOL's secret squadron first takes to the sky?

When pigs fly, MD? It's been done.



Red solo cup...

 

[cleardirect]

Cd,

Have you heard that some of us actually are on short call and do not have internet 24/7. I proactively informed you 48 hrs ago that i had plans AND reply MAY be later. Then got quick called.

Using a smartphone on the road so i will be brief and assuredly anti climatic.

As i have said many times before, if i were king all sli would be based on doh/los among majors with fences for wide bodies. For me its just a question of ethics being from a long family history of union ethics where los always determined shift bidding and the inevitable layoff / return to work in the auto industry.

The concept of a current furlough coming back to merged group w/o being placed in los order is disgusting imo. Btw.....have never been furloughed !

So my reply is much briefer and not based on based on my windfall wishes as yours was.

Rather simplistic concept eh? Am not saying particular circumstances do not justify further fences.

There is your reply......i am good for my word.

Honest Abe

LOS. So that is your entire answer? How usapa can represent ALL US Airways pilot fairly, LOS.

What would you do with the A/E flow through? On the list or not?
What would you do with the west pilots on the east list?
You are willing to tell east pilots that they need to be junior to furloughed pilots?

Just an example of what a LOS list looks like.

Number one east 1/1973
Number one APA 1/73
Number one west 6/1983

By LOS the number on west pilots goes from number one to 875. How does that maintain his career expectation?

The APA pilot currently number 200 (2.3%) LOS places 875 east pilots senior to him resulting in now being 7.2% on a combined list. How does LOS maintain his career expectation?

The APA pilot number 500 has over 1000 east pilots senior to him by LOS. 1/3 of east pilots would be in the top 10 of a combined list.

That east pilot who was 25.7% on a stand alone east list would now be 7.2%. Does LOS maintain his career expectation or does it give him a windfall?

Are all 875 east pilots wide body captains that would be fenced off of american aircraft? No some of those 875 are NB captain that would be bidding very senior to many american pilots. Equipment fences would not protect american pilots or west pilots.

Do you think in any universe that the APA or an arbitration panel is going to use LOS and have a n SLI that skewed?

I expected a little thought not just the same old DOH/LOS answer.Plus you did not answer my my question how usapa uses three list and represents ALL US Airways pilots fairly. Oh well not really living up to your word but at least you responded.

 

[Claxon]

What precisely was to be ratified?

No. Two entirely different processes for two entirely different purposes.

Again what exactly was to be ratified? BTW we all just ratified a new agreement, so you got your vote. Final and binding was already completed.è

Same answer. What exactly was to be ratified? A vote was taken and it passed therefore a new agreement has been ratified.

There was never supposed to be an extension of the process.

Final and binding is the final remedy. The east has frustrated the implementation. But since we have ratified a new agreement we can all move forward now.

You need to get that addiction under control. I see after that good advice you got, you just blew it off. Sad. Multiple rantings and pointless arguments. Sad.
What's in your wallet? What was once your million dollar lottery ticket is now a mere losing scratch off. Your vote ensured that.

 

[Phoenix]

LOS. So that is your entire answer? How usapa can represent ALL US Airways pilot fairly, LOS.

What would you do with the A/E flow through? On the list or not?
What would you do with the west pilots on the east list?
You are willing to tell east pilots that they need to be junior to furloughed pilots?

Just an example of what a LOS list looks like.

Number one east 1/1973
Number one APA 1/73
Number one west 6/1983

By LOS the number on west pilots goes from number one to 875. How does that maintain his career expectation?

The APA pilot currently number 200 (2.3%) LOS places 875 east pilots senior to him resulting in now being 7.2% on a combined list. How does LOS maintain his career expectation?

The APA pilot number 500 has over 1000 east pilots senior to him by LOS. 1/3 of east pilots would be in the top 10 of a combined list.

That east pilot who was 25.7% on a stand alone east list would now be 7.2%. Does LOS maintain his career expectation or does it give him a windfall?

Are all 875 east pilots wide body captains that would be fenced off of american aircraft? No some of those 875 are NB captain that would be bidding very senior to many american pilots. Equipment fences would not protect american pilots or west pilots.

Do you think in any universe that the APA or an arbitration panel is going to use LOS and have a n SLI that skewed?

I expected a little thought not just the same old DOH/LOS answer.Plus you did not answer my my question how usapa uses three list and represents ALL US Airways pilots fairly. Oh well not really living up to your word but at least you responded.

After the long drama about how important a response was to your importance and his integrity I expected a great sigh of relief or an apology. Oh, well.

 

[Claxon]

Any delay to the sli will last exactly as long as the last day of USCABAs pathetic existence. APA is taking over way before the entire court process works it through. APA knows the law, their liabilities to it, and has sane leadership to boot. APA is never going to pursue DOH or spend a dime fighting the nic. The lists will be integrated using the Nic as it is the ONLY legal option, like it or not.

It will be up to the Eastholes to form an LLC, fund it, find another scab lawyer that tells them what they want to hear, and attempt to climb the Mount Everest of DFR claims....which will never make it past preliminary review. Imagine, forcibly stripping over a billion dollars away from your constituents, forcing 1/3 rd of an entire career ofLOA93 upon your colleagues for what? Absolutely, positively NOTHING. A failure as epic as the waste. Remember to thank Lee Seham and the founding morons Bradford, King, Sewer, et.al next time you see them.

Their lies cost you all dearly.

APA could care less about the Nicolau because it isn't a factor. You voted it away.

 

[Claxon]

What precisely was to be ratified?

No. Two entirely different processes for two entirely different purposes.

Again what exactly was to be ratified? BTW we all just ratified a new agreement, so you got your vote. Final and binding was already completed.

Same answer. What exactly was to be ratified? A vote was taken and it passed therefore a new agreement has been ratified.

There was never supposed to be an extension of the process.

Final and binding is the final remedy. The east has frustrated the implementation. But since we have ratified a new agreement we can all move forward now.

It is true. You have an addiction to compulsively post lies approximately 5 times a day.

 

[luvthe9]

It is true. You have an addiction to compulsively post lies approximately 5 times a day.

It was bound to happen during the end game.

 

[cleardirect]

It is true. You have an addiction to compulsively post lies approximately 5 times a day.

Said the guy who does not work here and has no dog in the fight. Guess what you have almost as many posts per month as I do.

Look in that mirror if you think there is an addiction problem.

 

[cleardirect]

If only the US Airways pilots had leadership that understood equal representation like UAL does. That separate ops is not good for anyone.

March 14, 2013

Dear Fellow United Pilots:


Another impediment is the protracted use of ISL-based arguments well beyond any sense of reasonableness. This is preventing all 12,000 pilots from enjoying the full benefits of the UPA. The two Merger Committees have completed their 100 days of negotiations with no results. They will begin arbitration proceedings on April 15. That initial week of arbitration will include opening statements by both United and Continental Merger Committee counsels. The CAL Merger Committee will then begin presentations of their entire "direct" case. The arbitrations are scheduled on the following dates:

April 15-20

May 11-15

Jun 11-13

Jun 18-20

Jun 27-28

The United Merger Committee will begin its direct case May 11. Post Hearing Briefs are due by July 25. The arbitration will be in Washington D.C., and we will keep you updated on the specific location as the proceedings are public.

We all recognize the importance of the single seniority list - it will last for the rest of our careers. But the seniority list will be what it is, and no one can predict its outcome accurately enough to make assumptions prior to its implementation. The Merger Committees and their respective counsels will make their arguments, and a three person arbitration panel will compile the list. We all wish the ISL was complete and that we could move forward as one Pilot group under single representation. Any pre-ISL scheduling of training, assignments, awards, or other seniority based activities that occur post-ISL (which is expected in late August) is a usurpation and perversion of the ISL and a myopic view of the longer term issues facing our 12,000 pilots. The United MEC is only interested in equitability for all Pilots.

Mergers are not easy. No one can deny that the United and Continental Pilots are coming from very different histories, cultures and interests. But the merger has brought us together nonetheless and we have truly learned that 12,000 strong is better than a divided house. History has shown that divided pilot groups do not fare as well as a unified pilot group. Building and maintaining relationships is not easy but we have to overcome our distrusts, suspicions and differences for the benefit of our entire Pilot group. We must resist any efforts that will result in lingering ill will between Pilot groups as that does not help us in our mutual goal of securing the best benefits possible for our collective pilot group.

Let's get the ISL completed and move on; but let's not create problems beforehand unnecessarily.

We are United,

Captain Jay Heppner
Chairman, United Master Executive Council

We must resist any efforts that will result in lingering ill will between Pilot groups as that does not help us in our mutual goal of securing the best benefits possible for our collective pilot group.


Like filing RICO charges, false ID theft accusations, threatening to fire pilots for section 29. Failing to go to arbitration for west pilots. Demanding separate ops to capture all of the benefits of the merger. Ect, ect, ect.

 

[fatherabraham]

LOS. So that is your entire answer? How usapa can represent ALL US Airways pilot fairly, LOS.

What would you do with the A/E flow through? On the list or not?
What would you do with the west pilots on the east list?
You are willing to tell east pilots that they need to be junior to furloughed pilots?

Just an example of what a LOS list looks like.

Number one east 1/1973
Number one APA 1/73
Number one west 6/1983

By LOS the number on west pilots goes from number one to 875. How does that maintain his career expectation?

The APA pilot currently number 200 (2.3%) LOS places 875 east pilots senior to him resulting in now being 7.2% on a combined list. How does LOS maintain his career expectation?

The APA pilot number 500 has over 1000 east pilots senior to him by LOS. 1/3 of east pilots would be in the top 10 of a combined list.

That east pilot who was 25.7% on a stand alone east list would now be 7.2%. Does LOS maintain his career expectation or does it give him a windfall?

Are all 875 east pilots wide body captains that would be fenced off of american aircraft? No some of those 875 are NB captain that would be bidding very senior to many american pilots. Equipment fences would not protect american pilots or west pilots.

Do you think in any universe that the APA or an arbitration panel is going to use LOS and have a n SLI that skewed?

I expected a little thought not just the same old DOH/LOS answer.Plus you did not answer my my question how usapa uses three list and represents ALL US Airways pilots fairly. Oh well not really living up to your word but at least you responded.

CD,

Not 1 of 3 previous awa mergers resulted in long or short term benefit for me.

Ya see, it's really not at all about me.
The career inevitably has ups & downs over 30 years and some the result of mgt merger decisions. Just a roll of dice & no brother pilot to blame if it involves DOH.

Snapshots in time & relativety are are totally against my basic concept of union fair play!

Am i gonna address every potential negative scenario you proffer? Fools errand exercise in futility .

Just read my words and take em for what their worth - 2 cents.

Am not & never will be a final decision maker on this sli resolvement besides a potential 1 vote.

FA

 

[EastUS1]

When pigs fly...? It's been done.

Hmmm....a bit of arguable quibbling per the zip line = flight, but..."A touch! I do confess it!" I must remain dubious as to viable squadron strength deployment.

 

[Claxon]

Said the guy who does not work here and has no dog in the fight. Guess what you have almost as many posts per month as I do.

Look in that mirror if you think there is an addiction problem.

Another lie. Do the math

 

[snapthis]

Hmmm....a bit of arguable quibbling per the zip line = flight, but..."A touch! I do confess it!" I must remain dubious as to viable squadron strength deployment.

I guess you are right. Maxwell is more cut out for PSYOPS. Just look at the guy he was next to. Very effective.