Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

Metro?,

Those quotes were from:

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Judaism and Christianity. Bible, Leviticus 19.18

Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them.
Bible, Matthew 7.12

Not one of you is a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.
Islam. Forty Hadith of an-Nawawi 13

Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence.
Confucianism. Mencius VII.A.4

One should not behave towards others in a way which is disagreeable to oneself. This is the essence of morality. All other activities are due to selfish desire.
Hinduism. Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva 113.8

Tsekung asked, "Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?" Confucius replied, "It is the word shu--reciprocity:
Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you.
Confucianism. Analects 15.23

Note that I referenced several authors here as mankind in general accepts all these basic principals.

You ask above:

" Please, in the name of Jesus, tell me how righteous you are and ......"

My reply:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”

So brother, no need for me to rehash what you've already heard for 7 years.
No MOTO comment from me.
I will however refrain from labeling you guilty as you ask above. Not my purview to consider nor is it a winnable exercise on either side.

Interesting that your words ended with Amen.
Below a typical definition:

The Hebrew word, amen, means “surely, indeed, truly.” It derives from a root form, aman, which signifies “to be firm, steady, trustworthy, faithful”

I play a lot of poker with West type posters. They never show their cards or " act " clever by showing one of 2. Then they more than most ask about my hand. Ya want info......ya gotta pay for it!
For example all the questions above or the ad nauseam LUP request.
Then there' s the :
"Have you stopped beating your wife" type question.
You tried a bit of that lame questioning above as well.

Ok......rant over.

FA

I See EastUS isn't the only one fond of the drink. That's OK. The First Miracle was Water into Wine. I don't give two @#%@ws as to what your answer to my questions is. I KNOW you don't have one. What you have is the same old tired OPINION that you were somehow screwed By America West...NOT SAVED BY THEM which is the actual truth. I don't care that you refuse to believe that. Let me repeat that. I don't give a #### what you're problem with the Nic. is. It's YOUR problem. That 17 year guy that you demand to be treated with such reverence was ONE GUY AWAY from the furlughed guys. So let me ask you a rhetorical question....one so #### Easy even you can't evade it. When the US Air/AMW snapshot was taken, Where EXACTLY did your 17 year precious one land on your AAA seniority list?

See, It was a SENIORITY integration. Refusing to believe that simple fact is much of your problem.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I See EastUS isn't the only one fond of the drink. That's OK. The First Miracle was Water into Wine. I don't give two @#%@ws as to what your answer to my questions is. I KNOW you don't have one. What you have is the same old tired OPINION that you were somehow screwed By America West...NOT SAVED BY THEM which is the actual truth. I don't care that you refuse to believe that. Let me repeat that. I don't give a #### what you're problem with the Nic. is. It's YOUR problem. That 17 year guy that you demand to be treated with such reverence was ONE GUY AWAY from the furlughed guys. So let me ask you a rhetorical question....one so #### Easy even you can't evade it. When the US Air/AMW snapshot was taken, Where EXACTLY did your 17 year precious one land on your AAA seniority list?

See, It was a SENIORITY integration. Refusing to believe that simple fact is much of your problem.

You cannot and will not ever put a new hire ahead of a 17 year continuous service pilot. Never. For any reason, logic, or supposed ethic.

It's that simple.

Greeter

 

[Metroyet]

You cannot and will not ever put a new hire ahead of a 17 year continuous service pilot. Never. For any reason, logic, or supposed ethic.

It's that simple.

Greeter

Watch. Got Law?

 

[FL430]

Watch. Got Law?

I see you edited your post awfully quickly! Me thinks you are the one with the problem. Didn't you state previously that you don't work here? What is your concern of all this. Liar.

 

[EastUS1]

What you have is the same old tired OPINION.....

Indeed.

fatherabraham merely forwarded a fairly universal notion, sustained through extractions from several of human kind's most accepted spiritual philosophies......which you are clearly and glaringly ignorant of, and wrongly assumed the quoted lines to be of all christian origin. Perhaps, for your own benefit; it's your incredibly limited world view and wholly inadequate knowledge base you should first be addressing....Just a kindly suggestion.

 

[Zone5]

You cannot and will not ever put a new hire ahead of a 17 year continuous service pilot. Never. For any reason, logic, or supposed ethic.

It's that simple.

Greeter

Let's see....so what's the big deal, the NIC would "only" delay the upgrade of an East F/O by 2-3 years'

Well here's the big deal...as one of those "never furloughed" 17 year F/O's, a delay of 2-3 years would mean that my last 2-3 years (out of a total of 30) would result in retirement at 65 as an F/O. While the nice young man just ahead of me on the NIC would, after my retirement and "actuarialy" speaking (average life span for a male in the USA is 76 years, even less for pilots) be sitting in the left seat of a widebody aircraft, for approximately 10 years more, after I will have been DEAD! Anybody who thinks that is OK, is a greedy dirtball, period.

Did I make a "poor choice" going to work at USAir?, in retrospect yes. Not that going to work at America West was the smartest choice either. As it turns out, it looks like it is all going to work out well for most. Neither East or West pilots (with the possible exception of new hires) EVER had and expectation of flying for the worlds largest airline, at essentially, industry "standard wages", so what's the problem?

If someone thinks that I am "out of line" desiring to end my "less than illustrious career" as a narrow body Captain and capture a little "extra" in my last few, particularly someone who will by the time they end their career, have spent the last 10 or so years at the TOP of the industry pay scale as a widebody Captain, well...then you can "kiss my butt" and you will have to force me to give that up... good luck with that!


seajay

 

[end_of_alpa]

You'll never put a Reserve First Officer ahead of a Captain on the same airplane.

APA will never negotiate a DOH seniority list.

It's that simple.

Again Dan, the APA just said every pilot is a Captain.

They may never negotiate one, but under MB they'll take what the great unknown gives them.

 

[end_of_alpa]

How to Fix the Pilot Seniority Mess at US Airways by Ted Reed.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11868833/1/how-to-fix-the-pilot-seniority-mess-at-us-airways.html

Post-it note to Ted:

"AOL stands on legal, moral and ethical grounds and we will prevail."....
even though we keep losing in court.

 

[end_of_alpa]

America West Airlines
Consolidated Statements of Operations
For the Years Ended December 31, 2006, 2005 and 2004
-$37mil -$397mil -85mil

US Airways Group, Inc.
Consolidated Statements of Operations
For the Years Ended December 31, 2006, 2005 and 2004
+$304 mil -$537mil -$89mil

You CAN read a financial report...can't you?

Hey Dave. Is the 10-k wrong? Yes or no?

Is it? Is it wrong???

 

[end_of_alpa]

Thanks Jamie! You made my argument for me. We all know that in 2005 US Air was in Chapter 11 and moving swiftly toward Chapter 7 (this in fact per the investment banker that interviewed @ USAPA last year). So according to your post "the airline industry is expected to report an annual profit in 2006, excluding special items and bankruptcy-related costs, for the first time since the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001" (including the venerable America West Airlines!).

May 2005: AWA hiring, growing, getting new airplanes & routes, & upgrading Captains at 6.5 years. Doug Parker...the industry darling.

CB

Hey Dave, maybe the industry aggregate was making money, but AWA in 2004-2006 didn't make money according to the 10-k.

Were they lying? Should you report it to the SEC? You can call your industry experts you used in the Nicolau arbitrations to testify.

SYIC.

 

[cleardirect]

Yeah, go with whatever the majority decides is righteous. Its the only way to work together for peace, tranquility, and prosperity. Paddle in the same direction as the majority or splash a lot of water into the boat. Its as simple as that.

So whatever the APA wants is OK with you?

They have already said DOH is not going to work. Are you going to paddle in the direction of relative seniority this time?

 

[flyer63]

For someone that has gone through so many mergers it amazes me you can't understand what it means to merge and be one airline.

No doubt why you east pilots are constantly fighting among yourselves. Never learned to play together.

A merger means merging and working together. Not taking your ball and going to your corner.

The only reason you don't want solutions is because of the giant advantage of the NIC to you.

 

[cleardirect]

You cannot and will not ever put a new hire ahead of a 17 year continuous service pilot. Never. For any reason, logic, or supposed ethic.

It's that simple.

Greeter

It will not be the west that puts a junior bottom of the list or furloughed pilot below a new hire.

Nicolau already did the. It will be the courts, the company, the APA that makes sure it happens.

Junior on the list is junior on the list. LOS has nothing to do within. 17 years does not make you senior at us airways but it does make you senior at AWA. Combine those lists and the captain is going to be senior and the junior or furloughed reserve is gong to be junior. Really is a simple concept.

 

[traderjake]

They may never negotiate one, but under MB they'll take what the great unknown gives them.

So will USAPA.

Given recent history I'll put my money on APA.

 

[end_of_alpa]

So whatever the APA wants is OK with you?

They have already said DOH is not going to work. Are you going to paddle in the direction of relative seniority this time?

That is NOT what they said. Can you quote that?