Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

The only people we asked to be stapled were furloughed pilots.

You know what? There for a second I was feeling a little bad about calling you painfully ignorant, then you go and prove me correct.

Again, directly from the Nicolau Opinion and Award:

"After the
reinsertion of those on extended medical leaves and those in nonflying
positions, this would put 2431 US Airways pilots on the bottom of
the list, 959 of whom were active pilots as of May 19, 2005 with the
remaining 1472 furloughees."

 

[Ames]

You are painfully ignorant.

Why would DL WANT a merger with AWA? Did they prior to the US merger? No, you didn't have anything they wanted or needed.

Why didn't Parker let US fold. He's told you, but you are in your own little world of denial. AWA had NO MONEY! They got for nothing what they could not have afforded otherwise. Go read the 2005 annual report and get back to me.

Does that "scumbag airways" make your feel better? More of a man?

I am not ignorant, just stating the facts.

Why would American want a merger with US?

Parker told me personally he did not let US fold because Southwest would have gotten the best parts and AWA would have gotten the crumbs.

AWA had no money but we all know Parker is good at getting it.

Calling your failed carrier scumbagairways does make me feel better because I once worked for a good carrier which has since been dragged down into the gutter..... by scumbagairways and I can remind myself that I never wanted to work for scumbagairways.

Embrace your anger, Pi, it's cleansing.

 

[cleardirect]

What does that have to do with the point I was making? Keep up.

I assume you thought stapling 900 active pilots was unfair. The arbitrator agreed.

Stapling 1500 west pilots below east furloughed pilot you consider fair. No arbitrator to decide. Only east pits deciding what you think is fair.

Did Nicolau agree to put 900 active east pilot below west pilots? You keep up.

 

[Pi brat]

I assume you thought stapling 900 active pilots was unfair. The arbitrator agreed.

Stapling 1500 west pilots below east furloughed pilot you consider fair. No arbitrator to decide. Only east pits deciding what you think is fair.

Did Nicolau agree to put 900 active east pilot below west pilots? You keep up.

No, you keep up or shut up. Did I say stapling 1500 west pilots below east furloughed was fair?

 

[Ames]

Parker has said that the other majors reducing their costs to your low level was the "death knell" for AWA. We were on the same road. You may have survived, or at least survived longer, but he says you couldn't have sustained what you were doing.

You had a loss in 2004. You got you axx handed to you on the trans con. Fuel was ready to skyrocket. It's all there, if you want to see it. Again, if the US merger was so bad, why did he do it? Charity?

I don't think east pilots hired in 1989 were on furlough for 11 years. I could be wrong there.

Get your "facts" straight. Most of your post is crap. Regarding east pilots hired in 1989 I have a friend hired in 1989 who had 6 years LOS in 2005 and was on furlough.

 

[Ames]

The money you have contributed to AOL has provide a great website called cactuspilot.com. You should visit as you can find some great information there and get some much needed education. The Nicolau Opinion and Award is available there, perhaps you should read it sometime.

Here's a little snippet:

"The US Airways Proposal
The US Airways initial proposal was grounded on a pilot's Date of
Hire adjusted for Length of Service."

Emphasis on DOH. Not pure LOS

Your merger committee would have been fired if they didn't stick with DOH.

 

[cleardirect]

No, you keep up or shut up. Did I say stapling 1500 west pilots below east furloughed was fair?

You support usapa and their demand for DOH. That staples 1500 west pilots below east furloughed pilots.

So yes you obviously think that is fair.

 

[Pi brat]

Get your "facts" straight. Most of your post is crap. Regarding east pilots hired in 1989 I have a friend hired in 1989 who had 6 years LOS in 2005 and was on furlough.

It's really simple then, isn't it? Show me what from my posts is crap. I conceded that I might be wrong about an '89 LOS, but 11 years sounds low. But the rest is plain as day and the quotes are directly from the opinion and award. You are wrong.

 

[Ames]

You know what? There for a second I was feeling a little bad about calling you painfully ignorant, then you go and prove me correct.

Again, directly from the Nicolau Opinion and Award:

"After the
reinsertion of those on extended medical leaves and those in nonflying
positions, this would put 2431 US Airways pilots on the bottom of
the list, 959 of whom were active pilots as of May 19, 2005 with the
remaining 1472 furloughees."

You're saying the west asked for that? No, we just wanted to remove the 200 dead guys you had on your "certified" list.

 

[Pi brat]

You support usapa and their demand for DOH. That staples 1500 west pilots below east furloughed pilots.

So yes you obviously think that is fair.

Just as simple for you as Ames then. Show me one post that backs up your statment.

 

[Pi brat]

You're saying the west asked for that? No, we just wanted to remove the 200 dead guys you had on your "certified" list.

What?!

Be a man and admit you were wrong.

 

[traderjake]

From flying with you and listening to you, I think you have relative position tunnel vision. I think you have a lot of respect for your Dad(a good thing, it's why I defended you when those claimed he "got you your job") and feel that he got the short end of the stick in the US/PI merger. I understand that, but that doesn't make all relative position or slotting SLIs the same on "fairness". Again, DOH=bad does equate to Nic=good.

I don't think that's my motivation.

My father was furloughed from Pan Am and stayed furloughed when Pan Am and National merged. Had that one gone DOH/LOS he would have been recalled at some point (he never was). I don't think DOH/LOS would have been fair in that case either. He brought no job to the merger and didn't deserve to go ahead of a National pilot that did.

As a side note, those National pilots really got screwed, they worked for a sucessful company and because of a merger lost their jobs.

 

[usabusdriver]

Airways, for
example, was much larger. It served almost twice as many destinations as AWA
and carried twice the number of passengers.12 Airways has substantially more
cash on hand, following the merger agreement. AWA, for its part, brought relative success as a low cost carrier operation with a meaningful presence in the
Western United States.

...

Much of West's claimed superiority over East, in terms of what it brought
to the merger, is speculative.

There is, for example, scant support for West's
claim that, post-merger, "the focus of lender anxiety is clearly on the side of U.S. Airways"21 or that, following the merger, with the AWA CEO assuming the helm
in Phoenix, "the predator king gets to have the top job, to grant fiefs to his
chieftains, and to fly the flag over his castle!"22

...

EOA,

So do you carry the same thought process forward with the merger with American and US Airways concerning cash on hand, passengers flown, number of aircraft operated?

Should the American pilots be accorded deference in the SLI process because of the scope of difference between AA and US regards to size, cash on hand, fleet, and international destinations served?

 

[Pi brat]

I don't think that's my motivation.

My father was furloughed from Pan Am and stayed furloughed when Pan Am and National merged. Had that one gone DOH/LOS he would have been recalled at some point (he never was). I don't think DOH/LOS would have been fair in that case either. He brought no job to the merger and didn't deserve to go ahead of a National pilot that did.

As a side note, those National pilots really got screwed, they worked for a sucessful company and because of a merger lost their jobs.

Well, you know yourself better than I do, I just got that impression.

I just don't think that saying that Nicolau got it wrong means that DOH is right and vice versa.

As for National pilots getting screwed, maybe so. But you have to separate the effects of the merger from the effects of the SLI.

 

[Pi brat]

Hopefully clear and Ames ran off to cactuspilot.com for some education.........