Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Ames]

You know that you were one of my favorite guys to fly with, but this post really pXXXXX me off.

I have read the Nicolau award MANY times. I agree with some of the points he raises in the opinion, but when I get to the award I think "What the hell happened when you got to this part?" Have you read it? Do you agree with his XXXXXX up logic? I think you are falling into the same trap as west guys that DOH=bad, so Nic=good. You can be critical USAPA's tactics without hammering your co-workers.

My relative seniority on the Nic was about the same as it was stand alone for 2007. But, and I think you know this, it rapidly rose on the east stand alone list while it would have stagnated on the Nic as 1100 pilots were put in front of me, many younger. We have seen what has happened with separate ops.

Who has 23 years DOH but only 12 years LOS? I think that is a little off and remember, the east proposal to the arbitrator was LOS, not DOH.

You went from F/O to blockholder captain during the PSA merger, with a substantial raise, didn't you? Did you lament the cases of those that you windfall cost money and opportunity?

He pissed you off because he appears to understand fairness.

Your relative seniority on the Nic list was the same as on a stand alone list -FAIR. The fact that you would have risen faster on a stand alone list is great but you're forgetting one very BIG fact. Absent a merger you would not have had a stand alone list.

Who has 23 years DOH and 12 years LOS? An east pilot hired i 1989. One who was on furlough when this mess started.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Brilliant!! That explains the new airplanes, destinations, pilots, upgrades, & profits AWA had following our post 9/11 contract!! Boy were we ever lucky that we acquired US Air! Who knows where we would be! Maroon.

Not with the high fuel prices in 2005. Ask Parker. Bafoon.

Oh, SYIC.

 

[Ames]

A few "emails" don't make an argument.

Secondly, it is not the APA's job to determine what "list" USAPA puts forth. If it were, they'd be exposed to legal liability themselves and I truly believe their only position is to integrate what they think they want to argue is their list with what USAPA has integrated with APA's list....whatever APA determines that to be.

APA won't have to determine what list ucrapa puts forth. The arbitrator will. Looking forward to that.

 

[Ames]

I can jab you the same way. Look in the mirror.

Now when do you want to quit with the banter and get down to a real debate?

Says the fool who just called someone a bafoon.

 

[Phoenix]

DOH staples 1500 west pilots below east furloughed pilots.

East furloughed pilots.. That is some funny Shiite you are smoking.

 

[Pi brat]

The East and West pilots who could hold the #1 A320 Captain position (not their actual position) before the merger should be next to each other on the new seniority list as should the pilots who could only hold bottom A320 Reserve First Officers from each company.

The Nicolau award had the potential to miss that by a large margin out west.

From flying with you and listening to you, I think you have relative position tunnel vision. I think you have a lot of respect for your Dad(a good thing, it's why I defended you when those claimed he "got you your job") and feel that he got the short end of the stick in the US/PI merger. I understand that, but that doesn't make all relative position or slotting SLIs the same on "fairness". Again, DOH=bad does equate to Nic=good.

You bring up the fact that most recent mergers have been slotting by equipment. True, but has there been as big a disparity in relative position vs longevity as we had with the our merger? Did any DL or NW pilots see their career progression change downward as much as junior east pilots did?

Nicolau could have done a slotted SLI that was much more equitable. Lets say he started with the actually number of WB Captains and put them on top since AWA didn't have any. Then he looked at the furlough list, made a judgement of how many might come back and added their numbers to the list. Then he went back and took a look at the relative positions of those two lists. If he did a straight relative position, the west would gain because or our attrition, but if went and moved the east side up a certain number in the slot, that would be muted.

You and I are close in seniority/LOS so lets say that instead of putting 1100 west pilots ahead of us, he put 500. That would allow us to better move up as unmerged. Now, that would give us an advantage in PHX/LAS, so he could have put in a 5 year fence around them, and that would allow the attrition to mute the affect. Put a 5 years fence around the WB to protect those in the pipline for them.

That list would have been considerably less favorable to you and me than LOS, but would have allowed us to capture our attrition while not damaging the west pilots. Still a slotted list, very different results.

 

[Pi brat]

DOH staples 1500 west pilots below east furloughed pilots.

What does that have to do with the point I was making? Keep up.

 

[Ames]

Parker has said over and over again that there was a probability that AWA wouldn't have stayed around and a certainty that it wouldn't have in it's 2005 form. So you accept that we wouldn't have a job, but not that the AWA situation was not too pretty.

He also said it was a certainty that US Airways would have liquidated.

Had scumbagairways liquidated the health of the industry would have increased, benefiting AWA. Oh, and those Delta pilots would not have fought a merger with AWA because the hated east pilots would not have been part of it.

 

[Pi brat]

And by DOH our captain would be lucky to hold a reserve line and the F/O's would not upgrade for years.

Is that the point of the report? You are amazing.

 

[Pi brat]

He also said it was a certainty that US Airways would have liquidated.

Had scumbagairways liquidated the health of the industry would have increased, benefiting AWA. Oh, and those Delta pilots would not have fought a merger with AWA because the hated east pilots would not have been part of it.

You are painfully ignorant.

Why would DL WANT a merger with AWA? Did they prior to the US merger? No, you didn't have anything they wanted or needed.

Why didn't Parker let US fold. He's told you, but you are in your own little world of denial. AWA had NO MONEY! They got for nothing what they could not have afforded otherwise. Go read the 2005 annual report and get back to me.

Does that "scumbag airways" make your feel better? More of a man?

 

[Pi brat]

He pissed you off because he appears to understand fairness.

Your relative seniority on the Nic list was the same as on a stand alone list -FAIR. The fact that you would have risen faster on a stand alone list is great but you're forgetting one very BIG fact. Absent a merger you would not have had a stand alone list.

Who has 23 years DOH and 12 years LOS? An east pilot hired i 1989. One who was on furlough when this mess started.

Parker has said that the other majors reducing their costs to your low level was the "death knell" for AWA. We were on the same road. You may have survived, or at least survived longer, but he says you couldn't have sustained what you were doing.

You had a loss in 2004. You got you axx handed to you on the trans con. Fuel was ready to skyrocket. It's all there, if you want to see it. Again, if the US merger was so bad, why did he do it? Charity?

I don't think east pilots hired in 1989 were on furlough for 11 years. I could be wrong there.

 

[Ames]

NO WE DIDN'T!!!! We presented a case for our integration that was based on LOS.

DOH!!!

I think that even east guys know this is a lie.

 

[Ames]

They asked to staple 900 ACTIVE pilots.

The only people we asked to be stapled were furloughed pilots.

 

[Claxon]

 

[Pi brat]

DOH!!!

I think that even east guys know this is a lie.

The money you have contributed to AOL has provide a great website called cactuspilot.com. You should visit as you can find some great information there and get some much needed education. The Nicolau Opinion and Award is available there, perhaps you should read it sometime.

Here's a little snippet:

"The US Airways Proposal
The US Airways initial proposal was grounded on a pilot's Date of
Hire adjusted for Length of Service."