Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Zone5]

You would be in the minority of trying to ratify that DOH list. This time it will not just be the west pilot class but the APA pilot will not agree to DOH.

You are correct that litigation will forever haunt you until you accept your responsibility and live with final and binding arbitration.

Good God man, it's not "final and binding" unless the ENTIRE requirements of the TA were complied with. Did I miss the RATIFIED JCBA between East and West vote?

I agree with you the APA outvotes the TWA, Aircal and Reno pilots by virtue of their numbers, so what? Doesn't "make it right", you as a West pilot, should understand that!

Why is everybody so "afraid" of just going back to "square one", setting the "standard" of DOH across the board and moving forward?

I.m a simple man and just don't get it. Oh well.


seajay

 

[Metroyet]

BLAA, blaa, blaa, blaa, blaa! All this bullshit because one very simple concept, DOH, has been screwed with, at this point, by untold numbers of dirtballs, trying to "get a leg up" on fellow pilots. We, all of us, have allowed this to happen and are ultimately responsible for the consequences. Hate, discontent, lack of unity as professionals and on and on. Has this served the pilot profession well? I think not.

It's time to fix this travesty. Everybody at both companies, LCC and AMR should go with "strict" DOH. Shuttle, Empire, TWA, Aircal, Reno, PSA, AAA, Piedmont (have I left anybody out?) should go back to their "original" DOH and a "seniority" list constructed accordingly, period.

Would some get a good deal? Would some get a great deal? Would some get a crap deal? Yes and most would just get an OK deal and move forward with a nice pay raise, better job security (too big to fail) and as good a "future" as anybody in the industry.

We (APA and USAPA) really should take this opportunity to just "keep it simple" and


seajay

Only because you're finally figuring out how badly USAPA screwed you are you willing to concede anything. Sorry. You're eating the whole enchilada.

 

[cleardirect]

Good God man, it's not "final and binding" unless the ENTIRE requirements of the TA were complied with. Did I miss the RATIFIED JCBA between East and West vote?

I agree with you the APA outvotes the TWA, Aircal and Reno pilots by virtue of their numbers, so what? Doesn't "make it right", you as a West pilot, should understand that!

Why is everybody so "afraid" of just going back to "square one", setting the "standard" of DOH across the board and moving forward?

I.m a simple man and just don't get it. Oh well.


seajay

Back to square one. You guys never left. DOH is the only idea you have ever had. It does not work, that has been proven many times.

It baffles me that you guys are so limited on your concept of reality.

DOH is not square one. DOH is a dream hold only by east pilots.

Tell you what. If you want to go back to square one you start a national seniority list. Get every pilot union to agree and sign on. From that day forward all mergers will be done by DOH. But we already did ours in 2007. You don't get a chance to change history or ignore the deal you and your union made.

 

[traderjake]

BLAA, blaa, blaa, blaa, blaa! All this bullshit because one very simple concept, DOH, has been screwed with, at this point, by untold numbers of dirtballs, trying to "get a leg up" on fellow pilots.

Seniority is your position on a seniority list, not come much time you've spent on that list.

That's way it's called a seniority number.

Even you should be able to understand that very simple concept.

 

[high*flyer]

Webster disagrees with you...

 

[nevergiveup]

While doh can sometimes be fair, not always. Say 7 workers are hired in a week. They work together for 30 years. The no. 1 worker always got Christmas off but none of the others did. I have a hard time using the word fair in this scenario. I'd like to see a list where you get x credit for doh, x for service, x for relative position, and x for whatever else. Apply this formula to each pilot, from the top to the bottom. Bonus points if you like bluegrass!
The importance of having some credit for doh is allowing the older worker to maximize his or her earnings prior to retirement. If it were up to me, I'd do the whole thing by age. That would allow every pilot to reach the top of the list prior to retiring, but that will never happen.

 

[flyer63]

Just curious..

Did you ever bother to read the Nicolau Award in its entirety?

What was your relative seniority on the pre-merger AAA list?

What was your relative seniority on the Nicolau Award?

Should pilots with 23 years of "seniority" but only 12 years of longevity placed ahead of West or AA pilots with similar longeveity?

Thanks in advance for your honest answers.

Should pilots whose airline PSA was dismantled,and left with a skeleton of its original route structure continue to enjoy DOH? Or should there be adjustments made for its failure. think before you throw your colleagues under the bus.
Answer honestly

 

[Piedmont1984]

Traditionally and historically the first year with the company is a probationary year for the new hire. It is during this period of time that he/she is scrutinized and evaluated by multiple parties, including training, management and line captains in order to determine whether the apprentice fits in, works well with others and does a competent job. Some have not made it past their probationary year.

To take a new hire and place them above any one else who is not, stands common sense on its head and is offensive, plain and simple. If you don't accept years of service as part of paying your dues, at least acknowledge that all shoud pay, at a minimum, that first year of 'dues'.

 

[traderjake]

Webster disagrees with you...

Call him as a witness.

 

[N924PS]

Should pilots whose airline PSA was dismantled,and left with a skeleton of its original route structure continue to enjoy DOH? Or should there be adjustments made for its failure. think before you throw your colleagues under the bus.
Answer honestly

PSA didn't fail. USAir did. Western and United tried to put PSA out of business for 35 years. USAir accomplished that task in 3 years.

Did the Pit Hub faill? Or LGA and BOS? What adjustments were made in those "failures'"

Honestly...

 

[end_of_alpa]

Should pilots whose airline PSA was dismantled,and left with a skeleton of its original route structure continue to enjoy DOH? Or should there be adjustments made for its failure. think before you throw your colleagues under the bus.
Answer honestly

I have always tried to use reason on the forum, but when epitaphs such as scabs or low life's keep coming to the front it's hard to reason or answer "honestly".

I prefer to answer factually, but that seems to end in scab. FYI.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Traditionally and historically the first year with the company is a probationary year for the new hire. It is during this period of time that he/she is scrutinized and evaluated by multiple parties, including training, management and line captains in order to determine whether the apprentice fits in, works well with others and does a competent job. Some have not made it past their probationary year.

To take a new hire and place them above any one else who is not, stands common sense on its head and is offensive, plain and simple. If you don't accept years of service as part of paying your dues, at least acknowledge that all shoud pay, at a minimum, that first year of 'dues'.

Yes. Lets start here with a governmental fact. The FAA requires all pilots hired by 121 carriers have an ATP, a first class medical and the company (not the union) hires the pilot and trains her/him to receive a type rating on the aircraft.

Question #1: After that first year, according to strict interpretation, is the new hire pilot PIC qualified (fly as Captain)?

This is a yes or no question.

 

[cactusboy53]

BLAA, blaa, blaa, blaa, blaa! All this bullshit because one very simple concept, DOH, has been screwed with, at this point, by untold numbers of dirtballs, trying to "get a leg up" on fellow pilots. We, all of us, have allowed this to happen and are ultimately responsible for the consequences. Hate, discontent, lack of unity as professionals and on and on. Has this served the pilot profession well? I think not.

It's time to fix this travesty. Everybody at both companies, LCC and AMR should go with "strict" DOH. Shuttle, Empire, TWA, Aircal, Reno, PSA, AAA, Piedmont (have I left anybody out?) should go back to their "original" DOH and a "seniority" list constructed accordingly, period.

Would some get a good deal? Would some get a great deal? Would some get a crap deal? Yes and most would just get an OK deal and move forward with a nice pay raise, better job security (too big to fail) and as good a "future" as anybody in the industry.

We (APA and USAPA) really should take this opportunity to just "keep it simple" and move on.


seajay

How is defending our position delivered by a neutral party make us "dirtballs"? I would think the party using my dues money to persecute & screw me more of a dirtball.

Just another attempt at a do-over. Just another bite of the apple. Sorry Seajay, no on our watch. USAPA picked the wrong group to bully.

CB

 

[traderjake]

I have always tried to use reason on the forum.....

Like when you threaten with lawsuits people who don't agree with you?

This is a yes or no question.

 

[end_of_alpa]

How is defending our position delivered by a neutral party make us "dir balls"? I would think the party using my dues money to persecute & screw me more of a dirtball.

Just another attempt at a do-over. Just another bite of the apple. Sorry Seajay, no on our watch. USAPA picked the wrong group to bully.

CB

Well, with "round II" of lawsuits I wouldn't go out and get a loan based on your legal position. You'll just have to find out the hard way, I guess.