Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Beancounter]

Under Nic were the west not allowed to bid the widebody?

Were not the top 500 spots given to the east to protect the widebodies and on top of that a fence as long as age 65 didn't pass?

Bean

 

[nevergiveup]

Were not the top 500 spots given to the east to protect the widebodies and on top of that a fence as long as age 65 didn't pass?

Bean

I didn't recall the fence, but admit I haven't looked at in a while. MB might be a better deal for much of the west.

 

[Black Swan]

But what of your precious C&BL? What about the Gold Standard? What about the threatened DFR from the East pilots? The ripeness issue was resolved when you voted from the JCBA cloaked in the MOU. Your leader, in yet another brilliant move, published the unions position just last month that promised to repudiate the nic "in its entirety". You guys have painted yourselves into the very last corner. At POR, when you get your lump payout, this is over. USAPA is truly a lame duck organization...you KNOW that's a fact. After a court orders the use of the nic, USAPA should do the right thing, return the money they've extorted from everyone and dissolve. There is no use for USAPA in this merger.

JCBA cloaked in the MOU. Then the Company puts out an East bid just to drive your point home. Did you grieve it?

 

[N924PS]

I didn't recall the fence, but admit I haven't looked at in a while. MB might be a better deal for much of the west.

Just curious..

Did you ever bother to read the Nicolau Award in its entirety?

What was your relative seniority on the pre-merger AAA list?

What was your relative seniority on the Nicolau Award?

Should pilots with 23 years of "seniority" but only 12 years of longevity placed ahead of West or AA pilots with similar longeveity?

Thanks in advance for your honest answers.

 

[Metroyet]

JCBA cloaked in the MOU. Then the Company puts out an East bid just to drive your point home. Did you grieve it?

The company has taken the 1Billion dollar cost advantage you delivered to them on a silver platter. They're just going to sit back and wait for a Judge to tell them what they already know they are required to do. Read the transcripts. The Company's legal opinion mirrors the West's exactly. They're getting sued when this is all resolved btw but that's another issue.

 

[cleardirect]

No one wants to play arbitrator and give their opinion on how the bottom of the APA and Us Airways list should be put together.

How about someone want to justify why usapa the more open and transparent union has not put out an update about losing the demand for an expedited hearing in the ninth or the new law suit in AZ?

They were quick to tell everyone usapa was suing in NY. Why so quiet about AZ?

 

[Black Swan]

The company has taken the 1Billion dollar cost advantage you delivered to them on a silver platter. They're just going to sit back and wait for a Judge to tell them what they already know they are required to do. Read the transcripts. The Company's legal opinion mirrors the West's exactly. They're getting sued when this is all resolved btw but that's another issue.

Ummmm, the West overwhelmingly helped deliver that platter you reference. You know, the JCBA

So you believe it was a JCBA, yet you are not going to grieve every East bid that comes out? And pass on every captain bid that becomes available? 330, 76 etc? Makes no sense at all if you honestly believe that.

 

[Metroyet]

Ummmm, the West overwhelmingly helped deliver that platter you reference. You know, the JCBA

So you believe it was a JCBA, yet you are not going to grieve every East bid that comes out? And pass on every captain bid that becomes available? 330, 76 etc? Makes no sense at all if you honestly believe that.

Why would the west waste their time in the grievance process when the ENTIRE union is corrupt? This is already in Federal Court...you wouldn't know that if you just listened to USAPA which so far has failed to deliver the news that Addington 2.0 is indeed on. The difference is you all are now under the MOU which will place everybody on the same contract at the POR. Still think it isn't ripe? BTW, did you catch the section of the MOU that basically says, "if anything in this document is found to be illegal, we'll fix it to the satisfaction of the law and move on". IOW, the Company is acknowledging the possability that some of the MOU may not be legal. Guess which part they may be referring to. The LUP requirement is clearly spelled out in the Law...that's why every Judge has explained the need for one to you...which you of course don't have.

This is in it's final chapter. And the Silver platter you served your Billion dollars upon was delivered when you guys took the ball and went home years ago and begged the company to keep you on LOA93. Please explain your logic when you say the West overwhelmingly delivered a billion dollar cost advantage by ratifying the MOU by 98% which RAISED pilot costs for the company by 1.6 billion....See, this is your problem, you guys have no ability to think critically and base your beliefs on reality. That comment of yours along shows how disconnected from reality you are. The West had ZERO to do with that. The West was guilty of just one thing: playing by the rules. Any bets on when USAPA will let the membership know that they've been sued in Federal Court again?

 

[nevergiveup]

Just curious..

Did you ever bother to read the Nicolau Award in its entirety?

What was your relative seniority on the pre-merger AAA list?

What was your relative seniority on the Nicolau Award?

Should pilots with 23 years of "seniority" but only 12 years of longevity placed ahead of West or AA pilots with similar longeveity?

Thanks in advance for your honest answers.

Would you like to know what I am wearing right now?

 

[cactusboy53]

Hey, I bet more westies called when the 9th spanked them good.!!!! (and will again)

Not so much. I believe the contributions to Leonidas SPIKED big time after the ruling from the 9th.. We are again living in fast times. Perhaps the end of this little DOH paper chase is coming to an end.

 

[Zone5]

BLAA, blaa, blaa, blaa, blaa! All this bullshit because one very simple concept, DOH, has been screwed with, at this point, by untold numbers of dirtballs, trying to "get a leg up" on fellow pilots. We, all of us, have allowed this to happen and are ultimately responsible for the consequences. Hate, discontent, lack of unity as professionals and on and on. Has this served the pilot profession well? I think not.

It's time to fix this travesty. Everybody at both companies, LCC and AMR should go with "strict" DOH. Shuttle, Empire, TWA, Aircal, Reno, PSA, AAA, Piedmont (have I left anybody out?) should go back to their "original" DOH and a "seniority" list constructed accordingly, period.

Would some get a good deal? Would some get a great deal? Would some get a crap deal? Yes and most would just get an OK deal and move forward with a nice pay raise, better job security (too big to fail) and as good a "future" as anybody in the industry.

We (APA and USAPA) really should take this opportunity to just "keep it simple" and move on.


seajay

 

[Walmartgreeter]

It's time to fix this travesty. Everybody at both companies, LCC and AMR should go with "strict" DOH. Shuttle, Empire, TWA, Aircal, Reno, PSA, AAA, Piedmont (have I left anybody out?) should go back to their "original" DOH and a "seniority" list constructed accordingly, period.


seajay

Seejay,

Great idea. I would ratify such a list, and accept the associated hits on my own future. But there is one greedy entity that would never, ever agree. That would be the "West Class." They will forever haunt us with litigation on a perverted list they will never obtain.

Greeter

 

[cleardirect]

BLAA, blaa, blaa, blaa, blaa! All this bullshit because one very simple concept, DOH, has been screwed with, at this point, by untold numbers of dirtballs, trying to "get a leg up" on fellow pilots. We, all of us, have allowed this to happen and are ultimately responsible for the consequences. Hate, discontent, lack of unity as professionals and on and on. Has this served the pilot profession well? I think not.

It's time to fix this travesty. Everybody at both companies, LCC and AMR should go with "strict" DOH. Shuttle, Empire, TWA, Aircal, Reno, PSA, AAA, Piedmont (have I left anybody out?) should go back to their "original" DOH and a "seniority" list constructed accordingly, period.

Would some get a good deal? Would some get a great deal? Would some get a crap deal? Yes and most would just get an OK deal and move forward with a nice pay raise, better job security (too big to fail) and as good a "future" as anybody in the industry.

We (APA and USAPA) really should take this opportunity to just "keep it simple" and move on.


seajay

You are in for a big disappointment.

How many times have you east guys told us it is not about the money? A nice pay raise and "better" job security and the east pilots get away with eight years of thuggery and theft. No not going to happen.

 

[cleardirect]

Seejay,

Great idea. I would ratify such a list, and accept the associated hits on my own future. But there is one greedy entity that would never, ever agree. That would be the "West Class." They will forever haunt us with litigation on a perverted list they will never obtain.

Greeter

You would be in the minority of trying to ratify that DOH list. This time it will not just be the west pilot class but the APA pilot will not agree to DOH.

You are correct that litigation will forever haunt you until you accept your responsibility and live with final and binding arbitration.

 

[Zone5]

You are in for a big disappointment.

How many times have you east guys told us it is not about the money? A nice pay raise and "better" job security and the east pilots get away with eight years of thuggery and theft. No not going to happen.

I and all of us know about disappointment and I agree with you, it's not going to happen. Too many are "vested" in keeping all this "bullshit" rolling along! Too much "testosterone" invested (not to mention all the time and lawyers fees) to actually "step back" and get back to a simple "across the board" concept, DOH, for EVERYONE at both companies. Simple, requires no clarification, arbitration, constipation or interpretation.

Too easy, it will never work!


seajay