Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[electricjet98]

Never furloughed. However, Nic asked me to take an 1100 number hit and have someone hired 13 years after me one number senior to my position.
Sorry, THAT'S a windfall.

So with all of that glorious seniority...what position/equipment were you holding the day prior to the merger announcement?

 

[electricjet98]

Hey...where's Mikey Dale; haven't had a good laugh today!

 

[cleardirect]

Along the same line of thought, if you work in Phoenix, then shouldn't you expect to always work in Phoenix? That is your career expectation.

Did you always expect to have the option of bidding PIT? Was US Airways always going to have only 19 WB or do things change? SINCE the merger POST merger the company has added 6 WB aircraft. Did those 80 pilots have an expectation of flying those new aircraft without the merger?

Why should PHX only expect what we had pre merger and the east pilots expect more POST merger?

 

[Walmartgreeter]

$6.5 M in the bank (and growing). The company is paying a large sum for the process. The only reason that we would need more than that would be USAPA seeking VERY EXPENSIVE results. What are the odds of that??

If USAPA had 10M, even 20M in the bank, and had to pay it all to 1500 Westies in a fantasy, life changing, revenge fulfilling payout, it would be less than....well, you do the math. Your post does not even make sense.

This is part of your problem as a group. You don't have any sense of long term value, as in seniority. Mine just got me a WB Capt.job, something I would never have gotten with the NIC.

We are basically the same age Dave, but I was hired 15 years before you. You cannot have what I have. Not going to happen.

Greeter

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Agreed. And by just raising the dues they can be sure they really get the money.

Yep. And here is what real Federal Binding Arbitration looks like:

AWARD

The appeal of USAPA is sustained. F/O Stegmuller is required to pay to USAPA, within 30 days of the date of this Award, a sum to be determined by the parties. Should F/O Stegmuller fail to pay that amount within 30 days in the absence of agreement by USAPA to some other arrangement, she shall be subject to the termination in accordance with Section 29 of the applicable collective bargaining agreement.



______________________________
Helen M. Witt, Neutral Chairman



Greeter

 

[snapthis]

If USAPA had 10M, even 20M in the bank, and had to pay it all to 1500 Westies in a fantasy, life changing, revenge fulfilling payout, it wouuld be less than....well, you do the math. Your post does not even make sense.
Greeter

Huh??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k

 

[cleardirect]

Never furloughed. However, Nic asked me to take an 1100 number hit and have someone hired 13 years after me one number senior to my position.
Sorry, THAT'S a windfall.

If Nicolau put 1100 out of 1900 west pilots ahead of you that means your were mid level stand alone and you remained mid level combined. Yet you call that a windfall.

When the arbitrator puts 5000 american pilots ahead of you yet remaining at your current mid level position will that also be a windfall?

It was a seniority integration not a longevity integration. 13 years was not a factor your status and relative position were.

 

[cleardirect]

Yep. And here is what real Federal Binding Arbitration looks like:

AWARD

The appeal of USAPA is sustained. F/O Stegmuller is required to pay to USAPA, within 30 days of the date of this Award, a sum to be determined by the parties. Should F/O Stegmuller fail to pay that amount within 30 days in the absence of agreement by USAPA to some other arrangement, she shall be subject to the termination in accordance with Section 29 of the applicable collective bargaining agreement.



______________________________
Helen M. Witt, Neutral Chairman



Greeter

What was the result of that arbitration? The west lived up to their agreement and paid.

Could we have decided that arbitrator Witt was use whatever name you want to call her and ignore the arbitration?

 

[traderjake]

Point is that your career expectations when you get hired don't mean squat.

You're right, the thing that matters is your career expectations the day before the merger was anounced.

 

[traderjake]

Don't really care who was behind it we all know Munn's reputation, wow over 3/4 of the CLT piklots sure told you where to go.

The Recall ensured that the CLT Reps put the MOU out for a vote.

McKee thinks we left $90,000 per pilot on the table and said that the Recall could not have come at a worse time.

Absent the threat of Recall would the CLT Reps have held out for more?

 

[A320 Driver]

The Recall ensured that the CLT Reps put the MOU out for a vote.

McKee thinks we left $90,000 per pilot on the table and said that the Recall could not have come at a worse time.

Absent the threat of Recall would the CLT Reps have held out for more?

I, for one, am so sick of McKee's "if I were king" scenarios. The negotiators, lawyers and the NACs for USAPA and APA all said that this was the deal. THIS one. Not some imaginary, Monday morning quarterback nonsense that the CLT reps are known for. For many years we have paid a price for the stupidity of our reps who thought they knew best against every ounce of logic and reason presented by our advisors. They gambled and they lost, but they still have their cult following among the pilot group...unbelievable.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I, for one, am so sick of McKee's "if I were king" scenarios. The negotiators, lawyers and the NACs for USAPA and APA all said that this was the deal. THIS one. Not some imaginary, Monday morning quarterback nonsense that the CLT reps are known for. For many years we have paid a price for the stupidity of our reps who thought they knew best against every ounce of logic and reason presented by our advisors. They gambled and they lost, but they still have their cult following among the pilot group...unbelievable.

So the company had nothing to do with negotiations. The seniority issue had nothing to do with negotiations. The West pilots had nothing to do with USAPA.

It's all our reps fault so lets recall them with only about six-seven months left in their term and spend more money.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Never furloughed. However, Nic asked me to take an 1100 number hit and have someone hired 13 years after me one number senior to my position.
Sorry, THAT'S a windfall.

I am finding very few cases using McCaskill-bond, but a few are out there. Here is a quote from TWU 555 & IAM 142 in their AirTran SWA integration.

When you compare Nicolau with US Dispatchers integration (as single arbitrators) it was clear the financial comparisons used by both of these two arbitrators were significantly different. Hense the use of three so called "impartial" arbitrators now. This and the Republic pilots arbitration could very well conceivably give US Airways pilots a bump of roughly 2-3 years of service over APA pilots.

If arbitrators are going to trend away from LOS integrations there is no reason to argue DOH. Lets take the extreme argument that we are worth more of the combined airline and get more value for us.

With the way things have gone here and the way pilots can't seem to manage their own careers anyway we should just have political officers negotiate everything fr us and let them manage it for us.

BTW, here is what happened with SWA AirTran pilots:

"The precise amount of benefit for the Southwest pilots varies throughout the list, but appears to be the equivalent of approximately 2.5 years of constructive service for much of the list.

No wonder we got rid of ALPA.

 

[Black Swan]

No idea he has not called me yet. But we are scheduled for golf this week.

Still trying to figure why you jumped the gun on ripeness, again. Your best and only shot would be after a JCBA. Theoretically, USAPA could pass a Nic list in the end. Either way, you don't know and you are premature on that one alone. You are going into this speculating what list will be used. Dangerous.
You also claim the MOU was not beneficial to the West, yet virtually all of you voted for it. How do you now argue it was not a good deal on pay? It is the high water mark for a former AWA pilot, the best pay rate you have ever recorded. Yet you claim USAPA has harmed you. Best pay ever, fact. No seniority list of DOH actually having been passed nor accepted by LCC. Damage? Who dreamed this idea up? LUP? So far that union you railed against brought you a historic pay rate. Good luck. You are going to need it.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Whatever list USAPA submits to the M/B process, that list will probably remain untouched right up through the arbitration if it goes that far. IOW, the order of names on the LCC list will not change. APA doesn't care the order of the LCC list, only where it fits into the combined APA/LCC list.

So I think an argument can be made that once USAPA submits a list, that's as ripe as it's ever going to get.

USAPA needs to tread very carefully here, this is the 'dangerous ground' the courts have been warning us about. Submit a straight LCC DOH list with the orignal C&R's, knowing full well that the final, consolidated LCC/APA list will not be DOH and USAPA is making the same mistake that our ALPA team made in 2007.