Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

No idea he has not called me yet. But we are scheduled for golf this week.

That is OK actually we already have enough pictures to prove our case !

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

No idea he has not called me yet. But we are scheduled for golf this week.

Cool lets put those pictures on the web , Is BOBBY B. still involved, GOLF IS FUN!

 

[PullUp]

No. That was not my career expectation.

When I got hired 60 was the age. 65 was a bonus for some a bone- us for others.

AWA had 7 years upgrades. Using your age 30 hire age that means 7 years F/O 23 years as a captain.

Not your career of 25 years as an F/O and a few as captain.

Boo hoo. When I was hired they were upgrading in 5 years.
Sh1t happens, dude. 3 mergers later I was still an f/o.
It took 13 years until the first upgrade that lasted 23 months, mostly due to 9/11.
Then, back to the right seat for another 8 years.
Point is that your career expectations when you get hired don't mean squat.
Cheers.

 

[nevergiveup]

Boo hoo. When I was hired they were upgrading in 5 years.
Sh1t happens, dude. 3 mergers later I was still an f/o.
It took 13 years until the first upgrade that lasted 23 months, mostly due to 9/11.
Then, back to the right seat for another 8 years.
Point is that your career expectations when you get hired don't mean squat.
Cheers.

What he said.

 

[jcw]

the best thing to happen is the lists get stapled to the bottom on the AA list and then you can have something new to not let go of - you wonder why things don't get done in Washington - I actually think Washington has a better chance of getting an immigration bill passed then the two groups here being able to grow up and work it out

 

[cleardirect]

Boo hoo. When I was hired they were upgrading in 5 years.
Sh1t happens, dude. 3 mergers later I was still an f/o.
It took 13 years until the first upgrade that lasted 23 months, mostly due to 9/11.
Then, back to the right seat for another 8 years.
Point is that your career expectations when you get hired don't mean squat.
Cheers.

5-7 years upgrade. Whatever. Blame 9/11 blame the company, blame bad choices.

I don't care who you are no one in their career can expects to have furloughed pilots put in front of captains. Nor did any of us expect to have one side dictate the seniority list to the other side.

Either way even usapa uses career expectations. Read the part you always leave out to maintain pre merger career expectations. If pre merger you never expected to return from furlough you should expect to maintain that position not return because of the merger as a captain.

 

[Hate2fly]

This industry never had an event like 9/11. Every legacy carrier furloughed pilots. Nicalou was a clueless old man that never understood this industry. Putting new hires ahead of guys with 14 to 17 years of service with US Airways east. What an idiot!

Hate

 

[nevergiveup]

5-7 years upgrade. Whatever. Blame 9/11 blame the company, blame bad choices.

I don't care who you are no one in their career can expects to have furloughed pilots put in front of captains. Nor did any of us expect to have one side dictate the seniority list to the other side.

Either way even usapa uses career expectations. Read the part you always leave out to maintain pre merger career expectations. If pre merger you never expected to return from furlough you should expect to maintain that position not return because of the merger as a captain.

Along the same line of thought, if you work in Phoenix, then shouldn't you expect to always work in Phoenix? That is your career expectation.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Walmartgreeter, on 09 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Seriously, the short term rise in dues was appropriate based on current events.


Posted by CM on another board:

Yesterday per the Update above USAPA raised our dues to an astounding 2.45%. That is 25% higher than ALPA, 150% higher than APA, and the highest dues rate of any employee group in the history of commercial aviation.

Group II TOS Lineholding Captains and F/Os, respectively, will now pay an additional $750 and $500 per year in union dues. Group II TOS Lineholding Captains and F/Os, respectively, will now pay about $3,500 and $2,500 per year in industry leading dues.

Absent the bump in dues, we would all be paying a special assessment for merger expenses anyway. So, what's the difference?

 

[nycbusdriver]

If Nicolau was such a bad arbitrator and he was know for making his decisions by roulette, why did the East want him to determine seniority?

We totally agree on that. The MC was foolish.

 

[flyer63]

Absent the bump in dues, we would all be paying a special assessment for merger expenses anyway. So, what's the difference?

Agreed. And by just raising the dues they can be sure they really get the money.

 

[cactusboy53]

Absent the bump in dues, we would all be paying a special assessment for merger expenses anyway. So, what's the difference?

$6.5 M in the bank (and growing). The company is paying a large sum for the process. The only reason that we would need more than that would be USAPA seeking VERY EXPENSIVE results. What are the odds of that??

 

[PullUp]

5-7 years upgrade. Whatever. Blame 9/11 blame the company, blame bad choices.

I don't care who you are no one in their career can expects to have furloughed pilots put in front of captains. Nor did any of us expect to have one side dictate the seniority list to the other side.

Either way even usapa uses career expectations. Read the part you always leave out to maintain pre merger career expectations. If pre merger you never expected to return from furlough you should expect to maintain that position not return because of the merger as a captain.

Never furloughed. However, Nic asked me to take an 1100 number hit and have someone hired 13 years after me one number senior to my position.
Sorry, THAT'S a windfall.

 

[cleardirect]

This industry never had an event like 9/11. Every legacy carrier furloughed pilots. Nicalou was a clueless old man that never understood this industry. Putting new hires ahead of guys with 14 to 17 years of service with US Airways east. What an idiot!

Hate

A clueless old man that never understood the industry. Wow! There is a clueless statement. How many airline arbitrations has Nicolau done? How many arbitrations have you presided over?

I know it is hard for your to admit but that 17 year guy was furloughed or the bottom the seniority list. His career was equal to a new hire at another airline. Nicolau understands the airline industry very well it is you that does not understand what a SENIORITY integration means. It is not a longevity integration.

 

[electricjet98]

Boo hoo. When I was hired they were upgrading in 5 years.
Sh1t happens, dude. 3 mergers later I was still an f/o.
It took 13 years until the first upgrade that lasted 23 months, mostly due to 9/11.
Then, back to the right seat for another 8 years.
Point is that your career expectations when you get hired don't mean squat.
Cheers.

So true. Of course, your career expectations the day before a merger is announced is entirely relevant.