Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

I understand the part about USAPA remaining in place until the SLI is in place, Not sure about the JCBA. USAPA would have to voluntarily submit to such a process and the west would be under pressure from APA to participate. APA has already indicated their preference for a non-DOH integration. I hope we don't ignore them like we did Nicolau.

usapa did voluntarily submit to the process. In the MOU it describes how the APA will petition the NMB for single carrier status. That means usapa goes away. Not some, not a little but completely goes away as soon as the NMB rules.

The JCBA is completed prior to the SLI so your theory is incorrect anyway.

Once the APA becomes the legal bargaining agent usapa become the former bargaining agent. Simple as that.


Let the lawyer explain it.

Because American is a much larger union, once the new airline obtains single carrier status its pilots will have the political power to choose their union, APA, as the bargaining representative. That will leave USAPA with no bargaining unit to represent. It will then cease to exist as a labor union. See Bass v. International Broth. of Boilermakers, 630 F.2d 1058, 1066 (5[sup]th[/sup] Cir. 1980) (holding that an entity was not a union because “t has no members. It represents no one in collective bargaining. It does not deal with employers concerning conditions of employment on behalf of any employees.&rdquo😉.

usapa will cease to exist because it will have no members. We will all be APA members. usapa will have no dues money, no legal authority, no C&BL, no world wide HQ, no officers, no reps, no committees, no lawyers, nothing.

 

[cleardirect]

That is not true...

How much or how long did ALPA survive after the NMB ruled usapa as the bargaining agent?

Do you think usapa is special and somehow would have different rules applied?

When the NMB rules usapa is gone, not some but completely.

 

[snapthis]

And that is not a dig at PHX. There is no base or hub, East, West, or Texas that is totally safe.

The West Class is going to drag this out for years and years and even more years. Might as well enjoy our little bit of growth and attrition (especially when it really ramps up in a few years. Right about the time the parity raises kick in.)[/size][/font][/color]

Greeter,

This is not a dig at Charlotte but USAPA is about to get an eviction notice. It's not your attrition when we join APA. There is no East and West like before. This little party is going to end and the windfalls you've enjoyed thus far are going to end.

Your broke azzes came to our house, put your name on the mailbox, helped yourself to our refrigerator and put your feet up on our sofa table. You used our money to pay your country club dues, while enjoying a meals and bevs at McKoys on our dime.

Soon, you will be evicted and you will have to pay the tab yourself.

Party's over boys and girls.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Greeter,

This is not a dig at Charlotte but USAPA is about to get an eviction notice. It's not your attrition when we join APA. There is no East and West like before. This little party is going to end and the windfalls you've enjoyed thus far are going to end.

Your broke azzes came to our house, put your name on the mailbox, helped yourself to our refrigerator and put your feet up on our sofa table. You used our money to pay your country club dues, while enjoying a meals and bevs at McKoys on our dime.

Soon, you will be evicted and you will have to pay the tab yourself.

Party's over boys and girls.

Its been no party, and not a single tear has been shed over the fact USAPA is going away. You guys keep throwing that at us like we should be upset. We cannot wait to merge and be done with all this! Like I keep saying, the West Class has other ideas about delaying the process in lieu of a "win."

Greeter

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Hot off the press:

Fellow Pilots,
Last month the pilots of US Airways voted overwhelmingly to ratify the Memorandum of Understanding for a merger with American Airlines. This historic decision will lead to better wages, benefits, and working conditions for us all. While a final JCBA will be negotiated with the New American Airlines that can bring even more improvements, the MOU itself provides $1.6 billion in economic improvements for you over the next six years.
The vote on the MOU was impressive. Some 95% of US Airways pilots turned out, with 76% voting in favor of it. Every domicile overwhelmingly supported the MOU, including Phoenix where 98% of Phoenix-based pilots voted in favor of it. Despite this overwhelming support for the MOU, a few represented by Leonidas LLC are threatening the American Airlines/US Airways merger that was endorsed so strongly by the Phoenix-based pilots.
Eleven days after the MOU was ratified by the pilots of US Airways and five days after the boards of American Airlines and US Airways unanimously approved and announced the merger, the attorney for Leonidas LLC threatened “to file a third round of litigation and seek an injunction of the merger process until we can get a court order directing that the only [seniority] list that can be used is the Nicolau.” The next day, the same attorney wrote a second letter, stating that Leonidas LLC “anticipates litigation and hereby requests that the US Airline Pilots Association... place a litigation hold on certain materials that will be discoverable in such litigation.” Similar letters were sent to APA and US Airways.
Unfortunately these are not idle threats. In the past five years, Leonidas LLC has spent a significant amount of time and money suing USAPA, only to have their cases dismissed.
While Leonidas LLC claims to represent all West pilots; I do not think that is the case. Why? Because 98% of Phoenix-based pilots voted in favor of the MOU and the process outlined for JCBA negotiations and seniority integration. Just 11 days after their near unanimous vote, the attorney for Leonidas LLC threatened to derail the deal. No other domicile showed greater support for the MOU. In fact, only 24 out of 1041 PHX pilots voting said no to the MOU.
We cannot stand idly by while a handful of individuals seek to derail an MOU that US Airways pilots overwhelmingly support. That’s why your BPR today approved the filing of a lawsuit in the American Airlines bankruptcy court to prevent Leonidas LLC from interfering with the bankruptcy. This is not an action against the Phoenix-based pilots, nor is it a course of action that anyone desires. Rather, we have been forced to file this action to protect the rights of all pilots – West and East – who overwhelmingly voted in favor of the MOU and the process to move us all collectively forward.
Despite our filing in the bankruptcy court today, we will continue to represent all pilots – East and West alike. Pilots from all domiciles are on our BPR and important committees such as NAC and Grievance. They continue to find common ground and have learned how to work together in a process that benefits us all.
On my first day in office, I appointed a West pilot, Ken Stravers, to the Merger Committee, based on the recommendation of Phoenix-based pilots. Unfortunately, before the BPR could approve Ken’s appointment, the same West pilots changed their mind and withdrew their recommendation. Despite this, I am still committed to appointing Phoenix-based pilots to important committees. We are stronger when we work together.
It’s no secret that the Company has exploited our divisions for far too long. Over the past 10 months we were able to turn down the volume, unite the parts into the whole, and work as one union toward our mutual goal of industry standard wages, benefits and working conditions. That is my pledge to you. Despite the noise being generated by a few, USAPA will continue to represent all pilots and ensure that this union moves in a direction that benefits us all.

Regards,


Gary Hummel

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Trader quoted:

Walmartgreeter, on 06 March 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Probably some hybrid of DOH and LOS, with some kind of accounting for furlough time.


Piedmont1984, on 06 March 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

APA has already indicated their preference for a non-DOH integration.


Trader, you were asking about a final product. To be frank, I am sure we all have our "preferences." I will stick with my prediction.

Greeter

 

[snapthis]

President's Message
March 6, 2013
President's Message



"Fellow Pilots,

Last month the pilots of US Airways voted overwhelmingly to ratify the Memorandum of Understanding for a merger with American Airlines. This historic decision will lead to better wages, benefits, and working conditions for us all. While a final JCBA will be negotiated with the New American Airlines that can bring even more improvements, the MOU itself provides $1.6 billion in economic improvements for you over the next six years.

The vote on the MOU was impressive. Some 95% of US Airways pilots turned out, with 76% voting in favor of it. Every domicile overwhelmingly supported the MOU, including Phoenix where 98% of Phoenix-based pilots voted in favor of it. Despite this overwhelming support for the MOU, a few represented by Leonidas LLC are threatening the American Airlines/US Airways merger that was endorsed so strongly by the Phoenix-based pilots.

Eleven days after the MOU was ratified by the pilots of US Airways and five days after the boards of American Airlines and US Airways unanimously approved and announced the merger, the attorney for Leonidas LLC threatened “to file a third round of litigation and seek an injunction of the merger process until we can get a court order directing that the only [seniority] list that can be used is the Nicolau.” The next day, the same attorney wrote a second letter, stating that Leonidas LLC “anticipates litigation and hereby requests that the US Airline Pilots Association... place a litigation hold on certain materials that will be discoverable in such litigation.” Similar letters were sent to APA and US Airways.

Unfortunately these are not idle threats. In the past five years, Leonidas LLC has spent a significant amount of time and money suing USAPA, only to have their cases dismissed.

While Leonidas LLC claims to represent all West pilots; I do not think that is the case. Why? Because 98% of Phoenix-based pilots voted in favor of the MOU and the process outlined for JCBA negotiations and seniority integration. Just 11 days after their near unanimous vote, the attorney for Leonidas LLC threatened to derail the deal. No other domicile showed greater support for the MOU. In fact, only 24 out of 1041 PHX pilots voting said no to the MOU.

We cannot stand idly by while a handful of individuals seek to derail an MOU that US Airways pilots overwhelmingly support. That’s why your BPR today approved the filing of a lawsuit in the American Airlines bankruptcy court to prevent Leonidas LLC from interfering with the bankruptcy. This is not an action against the Phoenix-based pilots, nor is it a course of action that anyone desires. Rather, we have been forced to file this action to protect the rights of all pilots – West and East – who overwhelmingly voted in favor of the MOU and the process to move us all collectively forward.

Despite our filing in the bankruptcy court today, we will continue to represent all pilots – East and West alike. Pilots from all domiciles are on our BPR and important committees such as NAC and Grievance. They continue to find common ground and have learned how to work together in a process that benefits us all.

On my first day in office, I appointed a West pilot, Ken Stravers, to the Merger Committee, based on the recommendation of Phoenix-based pilots. Unfortunately, before the BPR could approve Ken’s appointment, the same West pilots changed their mind and withdrew their recommendation. Despite this, I am still committed to appointing Phoenix-based pilots to important committees. We are stronger when we work together.

It’s no secret that the Company has exploited our divisions for far too long. Over the past 10 months we were able to turn down the volume, unite the parts into the whole, and work as one union toward our mutual goal of industry standard wages, benefits and working conditions. That is my pledge to you. Despite the noise being generated by a few, USAPA will continue to represent all pilots and ensure that this union moves in a direction that benefits us all.


Regards,


Gary Hummel"

The Black Knight

 

[traderjake]

That's why your BPR today approved the filing of a lawsuit in the American Airlines bankruptcy court to prevent Leonidas LLC from interfering with the bankruptcy.

Somebody is getting desperate.

 

[EastUS1]

Hot off the press:

Fellow Pilots,

Every domicile overwhelmingly supported the MOU, including Phoenix where 98% of Phoenix-based pilots voted in favor of it. Despite this overwhelming support for the MOU, a few represented by Leonidas LLC are threatening the American Airlines/US Airways merger that was endorsed so strongly by the Phoenix-based pilots.
Eleven days after the MOU was ratified by the pilots of US Airways and five days after the boards of American Airlines and US Airways unanimously approved and announced the merger, the attorney for Leonidas LLC threatened "to file a third round of litigation and seek an injunction of the merger process until we can get a court order directing that the only [seniority] list that can be used is the Nicolau."

Hmm...let me see here: " 98% of Phoenix-based pilots voted in favor of it."...? That's an impressive percentage of voter acceptance, even though the MOU nowhere contains, nor suggests or even hints at the nic being the seniority settlement in any way, shape or form. The union CBL's require DOH, which any able to read fully know. Ok. So then; the "rational" follow up is to "seek an injunction of the merger process until we can get a court order directing that the only [seniority] list that can be used is the Nicolau."...? Seriously; is this just something taken from a bad comic book? Words just fail me here, other than lotsa' luck with ever seeing such an injunction.

AOL's legal staff questioning all crossing The Bridge of Nic: https://www.youtube....h?v=pWS8Mg-JWSg

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Somebody is getting desperate.

Or deciding to play a little harder ball. You say tomato, somebody else says tomato. 😉

 

[traderjake]

Trader, you were asking about a final product. To be frank, I am sure we all have our "preferences." I will stick with my prediction.

APA doesn't want DOH and no arbitrator has used DOH in more than 20 years but you think it's going to be a DOH/LOS hybrid.

Good luck with that.

 

[EastUS1]

Somebody is getting desperate.

Agreed. We likely differ on which somebody though.

 

[traderjake]

Or deciding to play a little harder ball. You say tomato, somebody else says tomato. 😉

Or they don't want evidence against them to be heard.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Somebody is getting desperate.

[font=Arial']Not checkmate by any means, and no desperation. Solid move directed at the spoiler LEO, not at the almost unanimous majority that voted for the MOU out West.[/font]

[font=Arial']A change of venue for all our complaints is welcome. Watch.[/font]

[font=Arial']Greeter[/font]

 

[Claxon]

2011 RES JUD said:




"The Dec. ruling should be out by April. LOA93 Loss will have been handed down to USAPA and that reality will have had a few months to percolate among the silent majority. I, and others a hell of a lot smarter than I, believe that Judge Silver is going to effectively end this debate by telling the company that they are absolutely liable if they touch the Nic. The law is clear. It is illegal for the company to enjoy the benefits of a new contract that work as a DFR against a group of employees. All AOL has to do is persuade the Judge enough that a DOH contract is indeed a dfr and will make the contract Illegal. Guess where all the evidence for proving that fact will be imported from? Wait for it.......

ADDINGTON!!!

The case that was dead, buried, meaningless, and forgotten will be back front and center to haunt USAPA. Being a Jury already found against USAPA for DFR in regards to a DOH list....how hard is it going to be to convince Silver that a DOH contract is a DFR?

It's a no brainer. USAPA is doomed and they damn well know it. Thank God they finally are getting competent legal advise.

This will be over by April.
Res Judicata...a thing already decided."

Res Judicata. Leonidas half baked law school neophyte for IN OVER OUR HEADs. Mitch Vaselino, Kevin Horner, ferguson. Res Judicata predictions pretty sorry. Marty easily separates them from their wallets.
Time to drain the Leonidas swamp of the rest of their cash.