Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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I know how you east pilots fail to read legal documents or pay attention to anything other than what usapa tells you. But man you have got to feel the sting of this one. Our man the Dr. must have hit a nerve with the ninth. He filed this today and the Court of Appeals ruled just a couple hours later. Now that is service from a court noted for taking it’s time.

Just a few of the better quotes from the filing to oppose usapa’s expedited motion. I know getting dismissed was anticipated by usapa. Whatever!



"The East Pilots immediately repudiated their agreement to treat the Nicolau Award as final and binding."




"USAPA succeeded ALPA as the bargaining representative. Under East Pilot control, USAPA also repudiated the agreement to honor the Nicolau Award."


"After a 10-day trial, a jury found that USAPA breached the duty of fair representation because its sole objective for repudiating the Nicolau Award was to benefit East Pilots at the expense of West Pilots, rather than to benefit the bargaining union as a whole. Id. The court ruled that “[t]he West Pilots remain entitled to a union that will not abrogate the Nicolau Award without a legitimate purpose.” Id. at *28. And it explained that “[a]ny waiver of that right must be ‘consensual.’” Id."



"Nonetheless, the District Court provided additional guidance by ruling that USAPA’s date-of-hire “seniority proposal” (a method of seniority integration that Mr. Nicolau found was neither fair nor equitable because it put more than a thousand East Pilots who were on furlough ahead of hundreds of active West Pilots) would “breach its duty of fair representation” unless it was “supported by a legitimate union purpose.” Id., Amended Judgment, 1 (Dec. 4, 2012) (Doc. 206). The Court stopped just short of ruling that USAPA did not and could never have such legitimate purpose."



"USAPA is a rogue, lame-duck union that was effectively voted out of existence by its members on February 8, 2013, when they voted to ratify the MOU."


"Because American is a much larger union, once the new airline obtains single carrier status its pilots will have the political power to choose their union, APA, as the bargaining representative. That will leave USAPA with no bargaining unit to represent. It will then cease to exist as a labor union. See Bass v. International Broth. of Boilermakers, 630 F.2d 1058, 1066 (5[sup]th[/sup] Cir. 1980) (holding that an entity was not a union because “t has no members. It represents no one in collective bargaining. It does not deal with employers concerning conditions of employment on behalf of any employees.”)."


"It is hard to fathom why now USAPA wants an expedited decision on its breach of the duty of fair representation—its duty to honor the Nicolau Award. For more than four years, USAPA vigorously fought against having any such judicial determination. Now, USAPA wants this Court to make that determination on an expedited basis. And it wants that determination to be based upon changed circumstances as if this were the proper forum to consider a Rule 60(B)(6) motion. Fed. R. Civ. P. 60(B). It is not."



"It surely has no basis to seek such relief based on evidence that was never addressed by the District Court. And, in all likelihood, it will soon lack standing altogether to appear here (as it does) on behalf of East Pilot interests. In short, USAPA has no legitimate basis to seek relief, let alone expedited review. This Court, therefore, must deny USAPA’s motion for expedited review."
 
Is the picture starting to come onto focus better now scabs? You idiots AND the company are starting to share the same cross hairs in the same scope. You can bet your collective asses that the trigger is getting pulled. How much influence did scab Hummel have on the APA's recent decision to alter the JCBA course? ZERO? What a shock.

That pulling sensation on USCABAS neck isn't just NEVER going away, it's going to increase until it snaps like a dried twig. 2013 will be the year of the Roasted Lame Duck.
 
Is the picture starting to come onto focus better now scabs? You idiots AND the company are starting to share the same cross hairs in the same scope. You can bet your collective asses that the trigger is getting pulled. How much influence did scab Hummel have on the APA's recent decision to alter the JCBA course? ZERO? What a shock.

That pulling sensation on USCABAS neck isn't just NEVER going away, it's going to increase until it snaps like a dried twig. 2013 will be the year of the Roasted Lame Duck.

[font=Arial']I first read the Nic online on my new DSL hookup at home in May of 2007. It is now 2013 and I am surfing on FIOS, and other than actual rulings from the 9th, SCOTUS, and Judge Silver I am not even sure what his latest means, other than (the horror) no expedited hearing on a trip to the 9th for more of the same. [/font]

[font=Arial']Unless I see the NIC published by the Company tomorrow as "the list," followed by Judge Conrad removing his injunction, I think I will sleep just fine going forward.[/font]

[font=Arial']But go ahead. Gloat. Looks like your biggest win in 7 years. I only have 8 to go, so bring it on.[/font]

[font=Arial']Is USAPA still the bargaining agent? Who speaks for all US Airways pilots in M/B? Is the Company actually going to appeal? [/font]

[font=Arial']Greeter[/font]
 
[font=Arial']I first read the Nic online on my new DSL hookup at home in May of 2007. It is now 2013 and I am surfing on FIOS, and other than actual rulings from the 9th, SCOTUS, and Judge Silver I am not even sure what his latest means, other than (the horror) no expedited hearing on a trip to the 9th for more of the same. [/font]

[font=Arial']Unless I see the NIC published by the Company tomorrow as "the list," followed by Judge Conrad removing his injunction, I think I will sleep just fine going forward.[/font]

[font=Arial']But go ahead. Gloat. Looks like your biggest win in 7 years. I only have 8 to go, so bring it on.[/font]

[font=Arial']Is USAPA still the bargaining agent? Who speaks for all US Airways pilots in M/B? Is the Company actually going to appeal? [/font]

[font=Arial']Greeter[/font]
this only seems to be "the biggest win in 7 years" to you, because you are clearly a scab idiot. Your fake unions' demise has been continually foreshadowed since inception. Just because you were willing to stay on LOA93 for 6+ additional years,(again, because you're an IDIOT) doesn't make your ill informed observation any more real. Youve been losing since the day USAPA breached its whore mothers birth canal and your losses will follow you and your family to at LEAST one generation beyond your grave. Couldn't happen to a more deserving group.
 
Res Judicata: ".... share the same cross hairs in the same scope.......the trigger is getting pulled."..." That pulling sensation on USCABAS neck isn't just NEVER going away, it's going to increase until it snaps like a dried twig."..."Roasted Lame Duck."

..... breached its whore mothers birth canal and your losses will follow you and your family to at LEAST one generation beyond your grave. Couldn't happen to a more deserving group.

Whew!....All THAT!?...And just over your little nic? Wow!...I'd sure hate to see what happens whenever you're denied a lollipop! ;) Tantrums of this level alone might well register on the Richter scale as seismic events. :)

Umm....If we just give you your nic immediately, plus even a dozen or so lollipops of your choosing; is there ANY hope for redemption and thus, the sparing of perhaps at least the second generation "beyond your grave"?...Or are all now predestined to be damned for all eternity?
 
You east guys forget your own history. I was making fun of and "anticipating" the usapa legal update. Just like all the other times usapa has anticipated and expected to lose in court.

usapa has anticipated all these set backs yet continue to spend the money and file document knowing that they will fail. Is that a responsible use of dues money? Is the responsible leadership and legal advice from the pros or is it lining the pockets of the lawyers filing unneeded paperwork anticipating a loss?














So it is difficult to get something dismissed yet the RICO defendants got their case dismissed with prejudice and the company got the status quo case agaisnt them dismissed. Must just be usapa has trouble getting cases dismissed.

Love when you refer to Addington. 2 million lost there. Classic blunder by Jacobs. Yet he tries to save face and re bundle it. Wake was remanded. Addington was your first real look at how bad your own legal eagles and Harper really are. It has been loss after loss for Lyingitas. The combination of Koontz, Simmons, Mitch Vaselino and Ferguson have spent your funds dry.
 
I know how you east pilots fail to read legal documents or pay attention to anything other than what usapa tells you. But man you have got to feel the sting of this one. Our man the Dr. must have hit a nerve with the ninth. He filed this today and the Court of Appeals ruled just a couple hours later. Now that is service from a court noted for taking it’s time.

Just a few of the better quotes from the filing to oppose usapa’s expedited motion. I know getting dismissed was anticipated by usapa. Whatever!



"The East Pilots immediately repudiated their agreement to treat the Nicolau Award as final and binding."




"USAPA succeeded ALPA as the bargaining representative. Under East Pilot control, USAPA also repudiated the agreement to honor the Nicolau Award."


"After a 10-day trial, a jury found that USAPA breached the duty of fair representation because its sole objective for repudiating the Nicolau Award was to benefit East Pilots at the expense of West Pilots, rather than to benefit the bargaining union as a whole. Id. The court ruled that “[t]he West Pilots remain entitled to a union that will not abrogate the Nicolau Award without a legitimate purpose.” Id. at *28. And it explained that “[a]ny waiver of that right must be ‘consensual.’” Id."



"Nonetheless, the District Court provided additional guidance by ruling that USAPA’s date-of-hire “seniority proposal” (a method of seniority integration that Mr. Nicolau found was neither fair nor equitable because it put more than a thousand East Pilots who were on furlough ahead of hundreds of active West Pilots) would “breach its duty of fair representation” unless it was “supported by a legitimate union purpose.” Id., Amended Judgment, 1 (Dec. 4, 2012) (Doc. 206). The Court stopped just short of ruling that USAPA did not and could never have such legitimate purpose."



"USAPA is a rogue, lame-duck union that was effectively voted out of existence by its members on February 8, 2013, when they voted to ratify the MOU."


"Because American is a much larger union, once the new airline obtains single carrier status its pilots will have the political power to choose their union, APA, as the bargaining representative. That will leave USAPA with no bargaining unit to represent. It will then cease to exist as a labor union. See Bass v. International Broth. of Boilermakers, 630 F.2d 1058, 1066 (5[sup]th[/sup] Cir. 1980) (holding that an entity was not a union because “t has no members. It represents no one in collective bargaining. It does not deal with employers concerning conditions of employment on behalf of any employees.”)."


"It is hard to fathom why now USAPA wants an expedited decision on its breach of the duty of fair representation—its duty to honor the Nicolau Award. For more than four years, USAPA vigorously fought against having any such judicial determination. Now, USAPA wants this Court to make that determination on an expedited basis. And it wants that determination to be based upon changed circumstances as if this were the proper forum to consider a Rule 60(B)(6) motion. Fed. R. Civ. P. 60(B). It is not."



"It surely has no basis to seek such relief based on evidence that was never addressed by the District Court. And, in all likelihood, it will soon lack standing altogether to appear here (as it does) on behalf of East Pilot interests. In short, USAPA has no legitimate basis to seek relief, let alone expedited review. This Court, therefore, must deny USAPA’s motion for expedited review."
Jacobs. How professional. Still feeling the sting of his loss to Seham. Coincidence the ninth ruling come out two hours later.

Get over yourselves.
 
usapa losses again.

Ninth denied usapa's motion to expedite.

usapa should have finished the court case in the proper venue instead of coming to the party late.

What was the legitimate union purpose?
Meaningless order.


"Motions Panel

During the month of March Judges Pregerson, Graber, and Bea are assigned to consider ready substantive motions matters. In the event of recusal or unavailability, we will draw another judge at random to consider the matter(s) in question.

For motions that require relief within 21 days, you must call the Motions Unit at (415) 355-8020 prior to filing the motion."

"CIRCUIT ADVISORY COMMITTEE NOTE TO RULE 27-10
Motions for clarification, reconsideration or rehearing of orders entered by a motions panel are not favored by the Court and should be utilized only where counsel believes that the Court has overlooked or misunderstood a point of law or fact, or where there is a change in legal or factual circumstances after the order which would entitle the movant to relief. (Rev. 1/1/04)"

"The briefing schedule is as follows: the opening brief remains due April 10, 2013; the brief of appellee West Coast Pilot is due May 10, 2013; the answering brief is due June 10, 2013; and the optional reply brief is due within 14 days after service of the answering brief."

So, what's the big deal? OH MY GOD!!! A MAJOR LOSS FOR USAPA!!!!

BFD.





 
Meaningless order.


"Motions Panel

During the month of March Judges Pregerson, Graber, and Bea are assigned to consider ready substantive motions matters. In the event of recusal or unavailability, we will draw another judge at random to consider the matter(s) in question.

For motions that require relief within 21 days, you must call the Motions Unit at (415) 355-8020 prior to filing the motion."

"CIRCUIT ADVISORY COMMITTEE NOTE TO RULE 27-10
Motions for clarification, reconsideration or rehearing of orders entered by a motions panel are not favored by the Court and should be utilized only where counsel believes that the Court has overlooked or misunderstood a point of law or fact, or where there is a change in legal or factual circumstances after the order which would entitle the movant to relief. (Rev. 1/1/04)"

"The briefing schedule is as follows: the opening brief remains due April 10, 2013; the brief of appellee West Coast Pilot is due May 10, 2013; the answering brief is due June 10, 2013; and the optional reply brief is due within 14 days after service of the answering brief."

So, what's the big deal? OH MY GOD!!! A MAJOR LOSS FOR USAPA!!!!

BFD.

Like I said, "biggest" win ever for the West Class. Stunning. Look for big changes today! Leo has USAPA on the run. How do I know this is a big win? I just do a word count on the lastest Leo update.

Greeter
 
Here's an idea sure to raise hackles on both sides of the issue. During its waning days ALPA brokered the Wye River talks in order to explore a possible solution to the SLI dispute. Later under USAPA, both Cleary and Hummel explored the possibility of some sort of compromise solution with the west. Both were rebuffed. The reasons included lack of authority for the west to negotiate on their own behalf and lack of legitimacy on the part of USAPA in the eyes of the west.

After the POR, negotiations will commence on the SLI. These will run concurrently with JCBA negotiations. At some point single carrier status will happen and the APA will become the new bargaining agent for both of the former LCC pilot groups. It is during that transition period where USAPA ends its role as CBA for both east and west that APA could, as ALPA did, attempt to broker talks between former east and west factions, granting both factions equal authority and tasking them with the responsibility of achieving a mutually acceptable solution to the seniority dispute.

Wye River was too early and both sides lacked the commitment to hammer out a solution. A 'Trinity River' meeting, five years later, may produce tangible results.
 
Like I said, "biggest" win ever for the West Class. Stunning. Look for big changes today! Leo has USAPA on the run. How do I know this is a big win? I just do a word count on the lastest Leo update.

Greeter

Good morning Greeter.

USAPA's big win were two 9th Circuit judges who took a pass.

The West class wins were a unanimous jury verdict, the 4th Circuit vindicating the Cactus 18 and yesterday's denial none the less.

I'll add helping us vote in the MOU.

We'll call it a draw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4
 
Meaningless order.


"Motions Panel

During the month of March Judges Pregerson, Graber, and Bea are assigned to consider ready substantive motions matters. In the event of recusal or unavailability, we will draw another judge at random to consider the matter(s) in question.

For motions that require relief within 21 days, you must call the Motions Unit at (415) 355-8020 prior to filing the motion."

"CIRCUIT ADVISORY COMMITTEE NOTE TO RULE 27-10
Motions for clarification, reconsideration or rehearing of orders entered by a motions panel are not favored by the Court and should be utilized only where counsel believes that the Court has overlooked or misunderstood a point of law or fact, or where there is a change in legal or factual circumstances after the order which would entitle the movant to relief. (Rev. 1/1/04)"

"The briefing schedule is as follows: the opening brief remains due April 10, 2013; the brief of appellee West Coast Pilot is due May 10, 2013; the answering brief is due June 10, 2013; and the optional reply brief is due within 14 days after service of the answering brief."

So, what's the big deal? OH MY GOD!!! A MAJOR LOSS FOR USAPA!!!!

BFD.
Indeed!! As per normal, everything is going exactly as planned in usapia!! You are as powerful, formidable, and well respected by all concerned parties as you've ever been!!! Your relevance and influence cannot be matched by anyone!!!!!!!!!

everything is fine. everything is fine. everything g is fine. every......thing.......is......fine..???
 
Here's an idea sure to raise hackles on both sides of the issue. During its waning days ALPA brokered the Wye River talks in order to explore a possible solution to the SLI dispute. Later under USAPA, both Cleary and Hummel explored the possibility of some sort of compromise solution with the west. Both were rebuffed. The reasons included lack of authority for the west to negotiate on their own behalf and lack of legitimacy on the part of USAPA in the eyes of the west.

After the POR, negotiations will commence on the SLI. These will run concurrently with JCBA negotiations. At some point single carrier status will happen and the APA will become the new bargaining agent for both of the former LCC pilot groups. It is during that transition period where USAPA ends its role as CBA for both east and west that APA could, as ALPA did, attempt to broker talks between former east and west factions, granting both factions equal authority and tasking them with the responsibility of achieving a mutually acceptable solution to the seniority dispute.

Wye River was too early and both sides lacked the commitment to hammer out a solution. A 'Trinity River' meeting, five years later, may produce tangible results.
Nothing changes. Honestly, it's really not that difficult to understand. After 5 years of this you people still refuse to understand the situation. When APA takes over and USTUPID is thrown in the cess pool where they were born, there is still just ONE bargaining agent. Who will have the authority to speak for and bind the East pilots? Claxon? And the West? MOVE2CLT? No structure exists that will remove the DFR rights from each individual pilot.

You guys ventured down a path with no real understanding of the ramifications. It's cost over a billion dollars...move on and deal with reality.
 
Here's an idea sure to raise hackles on both sides of the issue. During its waning days ALPA brokered the Wye River talks in order to explore a possible solution to the SLI dispute. Later under USAPA, both Cleary and Hummel explored the possibility of some sort of compromise solution with the west. Both were rebuffed. The reasons included lack of authority for the west to negotiate on their own behalf and lack of legitimacy on the part of USAPA in the eyes of the west.

After the POR, negotiations will commence on the SLI. These will run concurrently with JCBA negotiations. At some point single carrier status will happen and the APA will become the new bargaining agent for both of the former LCC pilot groups. It is during that transition period where USAPA ends its role as CBA for both east and west that APA could, as ALPA did, attempt to broker talks between former east and west factions, granting both factions equal authority and tasking them with the responsibility of achieving a mutually acceptable solution to the seniority dispute.

Wye River was too early and both sides lacked the commitment to hammer out a solution. A 'Trinity River' meeting, five years later, may produce tangible results.
under the MOU, which is now the "new" legally binding "contract" USAPA's existence does not end until the completion of the JCBA AND the completion of the SLI.

There is NO provision in the MOU for that to happen, the West wants nothing to do with it.

Those are the facts.

In a similar thread, I read Harpers/Jacobs motion. It was a joke motion. Venting, if you will.

The only GOOD thing it did was place into the mix a revelation of a new MOU/MTA/JCBA/SLI between APA and USAPA. That's it. AOL has no involvement and I would like to believe, althought I don't know for sure, whether Jess Pauley and Pat Symanski will file a brief arguing the case is now moot. From what I can see Jess and Pat are taking a course in a different direction.

BAD MOVE!
 
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