Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cactusboy53]

'
When did I say, "We will not negotiate?" Asking seriously. Was it in reference to the West as a whole? You're right I won't, I just don't remember posting it. I'm not hoping, because it most likely won't effect me. I think you're dreaming if you think the APA will give you DOH with restrictions to stay out of arbitration. You are probaly in the know better than me, but I do know a couple people there in the union. I was gone after the arbitration, but prior to USAPA (we were still ALPA), so they know I'm a neutral when I talk to them.

You said I'm hoping the APA will be the union by that point. I thought I posted the seniority would be in a couple years, not the four years one of the jihadist easties had posted. Are you confusing me with another poster. I'm pretty sure you have the right Bean, there can't be that many out there in my same situation, but I'm two of maybe three or four Beans on the aviation sites.

Bean

Ignore the above, I could have sworn that post was to me, not Cactus.

He's actually speaking about a discussion that he & had. I said "we" can not negotiate from the final & binding arbitration. I do not have the right to give away any portion of that award as we are "a class". Doing so places me (or anyone thinking like that) in jeopardy.

It may take to my 64th birthday, but I will not give away that seniority arbitration. Period. LCC has played USAPA like a Charlie Daniels fiddle, all to the gain for the company "remaining neutral". We stand on legal, ethical & moral high ground. I am patient to wait for the legal conclusion.

I find it in poor taste to brag about returning to the new company from furlough and speak about the great leaps and jumps made in the east. All the time while we have pilots (that brought jobs to this merger) are furlough or downgraded.

CB

 

[pilot]

Have the lawyer get the suit going. Let's get this legal battle started. Sooner the better.
Ripe, no doubt. Get it going now. Come on you West guys. Get it started. Quit stalling.
Get what you deserve, your entitlement. Your rightful place for saving the East. You saved us all.
Get it going. Without you guys there would be no merger. Get that lawyer to file the suit.

 

[Res Judicata]

Are we taking bets yet on when the POR is?

Bean

By the end of August.

 

[A320 Driver]

I say you're going to see a court ordered bump and flush for every non nic position awarded after the POR.

You can say whatever you like...that don't make it so.

 

[Res Judicata]

I find it in poor taste to brag about returning to the new company from furlough and speak about the great leaps and jumps made in the east. All the time while we have pilots (that brought jobs to this merger) are furlough or downgraded.

CB

They wonder why they're considered scabs...

 

[Beancounter]

He's actually speaking about a discussion that he & had. I said "we" can not negotiate from the final & binding arbitration. I do not have the right to give away any portion of that award as we are "a class". Doing so places me (or anyone thinking like that) in jeopardy.

It may take to my 64th birthday, but I will not give away that seniority arbitration. Period. LCC has played USAPA like a Charlie Daniels fiddle, all to the gain for the company "remaining neutral". We stand on legal, ethical & moral high ground. I am patient to wait for the legal conclusion.

I find it in poor taste to brag about returning to the new company from furlough and speak about the great leaps and jumps made in the east. All the time while we have pilots (that brought jobs to this merger) are furlough or downgraded.

CB

Yeah, I've asked before who would negotiate/represent for the west. That ship sailed a long time ago. Getting angry over the arbitration was/is one thing, attacking the west and failing to represent us was/is a whole other (ugly) thing.

Bean

 

[nevergiveup]

I say you're going to see a court ordered bump and flush for every non nic position awarded after the POR.

Is that the best you can do?

 

[Res Judicata]

Have the lawyer get the suit going. Let's get this legal battle started. Sooner the better.
Ripe, no doubt. Get it going now. Come on you West guys. Get it started. Quit stalling.
Get what you deserve, your entitlement. Your rightful place for saving the East. You saved us all.
Get it going. Without you guys there would be no merger. Get that lawyer to file the suit.

Wait for the POR. The merger hasn't cleared the requisite legal obstacles yet. As soon as it does, the hammer is coming down. I promise. Keep your panties on.

 

[Res Judicata]

Is that the best you can do?

No. But that's all I'm revealing to you now.

 

[Beancounter]

Cr@p, I just closed an Excel spreadsheat instead of the darn aviation forum. Thank goodness for autosave. later

Bean

 

[Claxon]

No. But that's all I'm revealing to you now.

Just like they "revealed" the Addington debacle. And when the 9th schooled them. And Silver backed USAPA as the union of choice.
I bet the eastern div pilots are just shaking in fear.
Leonidas is living up to its' name. A group that was massacred.

 

[dca319]

Are we taking bets yet on when the POR is?

Bean

[background=rgb(245, 245, 245)]
The timeline below illustrates what we can expect to happen over the next six months as the plan of reorganization is completed and the corporation moves through the approval process and eventually exits bankruptcy (most likely in the third quarter, but all dates are estimates). If and when the plan of reorganization is approved, we will then petition for single carrier status and begin negotiations toward a joint collective bargaining agreement and eventually negotiate/arbitrate an integrated seniority list. This entire process is expected to take 18 to 24 months before it is completed. Feb. 20, 2013

• Filing of motion to approve merger agreement and support and settlement agreement
  

Week of Feb. 18, 2013

• Hart-Scott-Rodino (HSR) filing (legal antitrust review by Department of Justice)
  

March 22, 2013
(30 days after the filing of the motion)

• Bankruptcy court hearing on approval of merger agreement and support and settlement agreement
  

Week of March 25, 2013
(30 days after the initial HSR filing)

• DOJ issues second request to AMR and LCC requesting additional information regarding the merger
  

April 21, 2013
(30 days after the approval of the merger agreement)

• Debtors file plan of reorganization (“Plan&rdquo that provides for, among other things, the treatment of claims and consummation of the merger transaction
• Debtors file disclosure statement, which provides a history of the debtors and bankruptcy cases, an explanation of the Plan and treatment of creditors and why the debtors believe the Plan is feasible and the best option available
• Debtors file a motion to approve the disclosure statement that requests, among other things, approval of the disclosure statement, approval of the voting procedures and a schedule for the confirmation of the Plan
  

Week of May 27, 2013
(60 days after second request from DOJ)

• AMR and LCC respond to second request from DOJ for information regarding the Plan
  

Week of June 26, 2013
(30 days after responses to second request from DOJ)

• Deadline for DOJ to decide to block merger or not. If it does not block or reach extension of time to consider merger with LCC and AMR, the parties can close on the merger
• Ordinarily DOJ will ask for extension of time and it will be granted by the parties
• It is estimated that DOJ will make a decision between late June and late September
  

July 5, 2013
(75 days after the filing of the disclosure statement and Plan)

• Hearing before bankruptcy court to consider approval of the disclosure statement
  • Court will consider whether the disclosure statement contains adequate information as required by the bankruptcy code
  • Objections to approval of the disclosure statement will be due approximately seven days prior to the hearing
    

Week of July 7

• Distribution to creditors of the disclosure statement, Plan and ballots for voting by UCC with respect to the Plan
  

Beginning of August

• Voting deadline
  • All impaired classes (except those deemed to reject because they will receive no distribution) are entitled to vote
  • With respect to each impaired class of claims, the entire class of claims is deemed to accept a Plan if the Plan is accepted by creditors that hold at least two-thirds in amount and more than one-half in number of the allowed claims in the class
    
• Deadline for objections to Plan
  

End of August/beginning of September

• Hearing before bankruptcy court to consider confirmation of the Plan
  • Court will consider objections to the Plan
  • Court will consider whether the Plan satisfies the requirements of Section 1129 of the bankruptcy code
  • If the Plan is approved, the debtor can then emerge from bankruptcy. If there is opposition to the Plan, additional delays regarding the corporation’s exit from bankruptcy are possible
    

[/background]​

 

[nevergiveup]

No. But that's all I'm revealing to you now.

The idea of you revealing anything is quite scary!

 

[GuntherA320]

He's actually speaking about a discussion that he & had.

I find it in poor taste to brag about returning to the new company from furlough and speak about the great leaps and jumps made in the east. All the time while we have pilots (that brought jobs to this merger) are furlough or downgraded.

CB

In the previous post that talks about my return and subsequent rise to my current position, I was responding to Res Judicata's post about how much money East pilots have wasted. In my case, it was not a waste of money. In fact, I'd say that USAPA has only cost me about $2000 (All Tax deductible) more than ALPA over the last 5 years. I would say that is a much better scenario than being furloughed under the Nicolau award. I'm sorry that you took it as bragging. It was merely stating the facts of what has happened. I told you 5 years ago that this is what would happen. No secret there. I wish we could have come together years ago and sorted this out, but that didn't happen. As you say, "there is nothing to sort our or negotiate". So we have what we have and it will be what it will be. If you're sore over how things turned out, maybe someone should have listened 5 or 6 years ago. I think we could have come to an amicable solution back then. I realize that it is way to late now to go any other way but litigation, but it didn't have to be that way. I'm sure 5 years ago you thought i was crazy when I said this would take 7 or 8 years to settle. But here we are.....5 years later.....still waiting.

 

[doh nogo]

I believe that APA doesn't want this to go to arbitration. They have seen what a "Nicolau" type of award could do to them. I believe that APA should protect their interests (wide bodies). I think if USAPA agrees to let APA protect their interests that we will have a negotiated seniority list instead of an arbitrated one.

So this is the face of USAPA's desperation. Avoid arbitration at all cost just to save face and say the Nicolau Award was not used. Unbelievably desperate, to basically give the APA whatever they want to "protect their interests" because you know that going to arbitration will result in the Nic being merged with APA's list.

Well let me save you a few brain cells. It won't matter either way. All roads lead to the Nicolau award for you and I. Negotiated, arbitrated, or otherwise, through acceptance by the APA or through court injunction and intervention, you will not get your do-over. Just hold your breath until the merger is actually approved and has cleared the governments hurdles. Then the hammer will come down once and for all. Mark my words.