Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Res Judicata]

The Westoffs are practically begging now. As if you are going to give them what they will never get. If Cleardirect put a fraction of the time she spends on this board into a different endeavor, she would be wealthy. But she chooses willfully to be a begger.

Begging??? HHHHHAAAA!!!! We don't ASK you scabs for anything. We're getting our rightful seniority by brute force. You can't do a single thing to stop it either.

 

[Claxon]

Of course not. Just a promise to snap your fake unions neck fairly soon. You have nothing left in the delay tool bag. This is going to excruciatingly painful for you. What's it like to have forcibly wasted well over a billion dollars of your coworkers money, waste 5 years on an illegal goose chase, get stapled anyway , and forever be reviled as the scumbag, pig scab you are for the rest of your career?

I see a medical retirement in many of you founding scabs future. Call Cleary, he's got a head start on the insurance fraud scheme.

This one is particularly psychotic at the fact you have stopped him cold. Read it carefully. Neck snapping? Pig scabs? Brute force? AA surely denied him employment as did all the other airlines. Rightly so. The answers on the psychological evaluation from this one surely raised eyebrows across the industry.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Of course not. Just a promise to snap your fake unions neck fairly soon. You have nothing left in the delay tool bag. This is going to excruciatingly painful for you. What's it like to have forcibly wasted well over a billion dollars of your coworkers money, waste 5 years on an illegal goose chase, get stapled anyway , and forever be reviled as the scumbag, pig scab you are for the rest of your career?

I see a medical retirement in many of you founding scabs future. Call Cleary, he's got a head start on the insurance fraud scheme.

Whoa Dude! Did you read what you just wrote?

I think you need to think about that "medical retirement"!

 

[EastUS1]

East, what a great way to open these forums back up. I can't stop laughing.

Perfect comeback. Two thumbs up.

Thanks. Life's far too short for any of us to miss a chance to laugh. In my estimation; this all's pretty much a "done deal", insofar as with the MOU's acceptance, the dice have been rolled, and all that's left to do is see what they finally settle and show. What's most interesting to me is that the two sides feel their cases fully supported by the MOU....which should flag to all just what a poorly constructed instrument it truly was/is, and require wonder as to how it could ever have been "sold" to both east and west....Oh well. Again; all will be as it will, regardless of anything we engage in here. It no longer serves anyone to even try and sway opinions, so...might as well enjoy the ride from here on out, however it goes. We can always engage in some good old east-west/west-east sniping as desired, and as established habit dicates, but it's purely for grins, venting or basic "nyaah, nyaah" value now. I can only hope that all works out for the best, especially for any (east or west) that will still be working "here" for many years to come.

Don't even ask how I think all this will work out. The Great and Powerful Oz is on holiday...and I really am just the door man.

 

[cactusboy53]

The Westoffs are practically begging now. As if you are going to give them what they will never get. If Cleardirect put a fraction of the time she spends on this board into a different endeavor, she would be wealthy. But she chooses willfully to be a begger.

Yea, we are really "begging". SYIC maroon.

 

[Claxon]

Yea, we are really "begging". SYIC maroon.

Threats, more threats. Pray tell, what is a MAROON??? Do you realize you are calling someone a color similar to burgundy?

 

[exB717Flyer]

Ever heard of Google, you trogladyte?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Kh7nLplWo

 

[jetjok1]

This is one comment from an APA buddy

One guys opinion


Sell the west unit(doesn't make money, don't need it, we will eliminate it over time anyhow) and let them go with their seniority intact. Maybe they can spin eagle to them also. BOOM! Two problems solved at once. Then they can all flow through to AA/US with the eagle group...

Well, I for one, see that as pure BS and spin.........wherever this SLI thing ends up they have as much right to their proper seniority as we do and the APA pilots do. Why don't you keep this crap off these boards. Your wasting bandwidth.

 

[N924PS]

Ever heard of Google, you trogladyte?

https://www.youtube....h?v=C_Kh7nLplWo

Hey Claxon-

Look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls!

 

[prechilill]

Threats, more threats. Pray tell, what is a MAROON??? Do you realize you are calling someone a color similar to burgundy?

Please, show us all another video. Aside from being stupid, your posts also make little sense. Please, give us another irrelevant video.

 

[EastUS1]

Please, show us all another video. Aside from being stupid, ......... Please, give us another irrelevant video.

No problem....Heck...Have two true gems!

 

[GuntherA320]

Of course not. Just a promise to snap your fake unions neck fairly soon. You have nothing left in the delay tool bag. This is going to excruciatingly painful for you. What's it like to have forcibly wasted well over a billion dollars of your coworkers money, waste 5 years on an illegal goose chase, get stapled anyway , and forever be reviled as the scumbag, pig scab you are for the rest of your career?

I see a medical retirement in many of you founding scabs future. Call Cleary, he's got a head start on the insurance fraud scheme.

You have told us again and again how "fair" the Nicolau award is. Yet here you say that we will, "get stapled anyway". Which is it? Fair or a staple? Obviously it can't be both.

I have to say, I certainly don't think it has been a waste of money or a goose chase. Instead of being furloughed under the Nicolau award, I have remained employed and actually have been a widebody F/O for over a year (higher pay rate than any West F/O). And due to our attrition, I will likely be an A330 F/O by September. Hardly a waste of time or money.

I said almost 5 years ago that cooler heads need to prevail and both sides needed to come together and work something out. Unfortunately, too many on your side said Nic or nothing. That left us nowhere to go but USAPA. Funny thing is, you might have had your Nic right now if you had agreed to a 5 year fence. (I know, I know. It was the principle of the matter or integrity, or something). You'd have been making more for the last 5 years, would have still had your union (no USAPA!!!), and you would not have spent 4 million in legal bills to Marty Harper. But there was no compromise. (I know, I know. The Nic was the compromise). Instead you are still trying to fight and hope that you get what you want. Good luck is all that I will say. You are fighting an uphill battle.

Lets just say you get the Nic after a protracted court battle. That means another 3 or 4 years before you get what you're fighting for. That's 3 or 4 more years of PHX stagnation. Meanwhile 99' hires will be upgrading to Captain on the A320 and new hires will be taking A330 F/O slots. Think you'll get the Nic sooner than that? I will wager $1000 that even if (a big if) you win (nic unaltered), it will be 3 more years (march 2016) before you see it. By then it won't matter anymore. I absolutely believe in your rights to sue. I just wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch.

Think APA is on your side? Here are a few samples of posts from C&R (the APA message board).


"Wow, that is one screwed up list. When you see it in print WOW, what was that Nicolau thinking?"

"We absolutely can not get involved in this....Of course there is nothing wrong with Rooting for USAPA .... USAPA is the legal bargaining agent for the USair pilots, if they get to enforce their idea of a seniority list its VERY good for us..."


"That is a tough question as I am only familiar with the players on the APA Team. I would not want to be the "Test Case" for Bond/McCaskil as it is a very vague law. I don't think any of the parties want to go that route. I do beleive a negotiated SLI is possible with proper fences, equipment seperation, and future equipment designation. My major concern is APA selling our pilots grossly short as they did with LBFO1. The other problem could arise if USAPA tries to grab disproportional flying and/or equipment.
I am convinced USAPA does not want arbitration and will settle, as long as the Nicalou list is not recognized. Therefore, put me down for $10 on a negotiated SLI. Then the lawsuits begin. The other possibility is the parties settle on the majority of issues and send a portion to arbitration. I will stick my neck out and say it is 100% negotiated SLI"


"I agree with Xxx Xxxxx, the chances are that this SLI isnt going to arbitration. Chances are that USAPA will keep the Nic. Award tied up in the courts for another 2 years, and a negotiated DOH based seniority merge (with protections) will be hammered out between APA and USAPA. Neither of these groups want a relative position merge... so they won't chance it with an arbitrator. If AW guys want a 10 or 20 year fence around Phoenix, I'm sure APA/USAPA will be happy to oblige. If AW pilots sue, they'll be suing USAPA, which will be a non-entity after the merge. And yes, a DOH based merge is what should have happened with TWA."

Just something to think about.

 

[cleardirect]

Think APA is on your side? Here are a few samples of posts from C&R (the APA message board).




"We absolutely can not get involved in this....Of course there is nothing wrong with Rooting for USAPA .... USAPA is the legal bargaining agent for the USair pilots, if they get to enforce their idea of a seniority list its VERY good for us..."


"That is a tough question as I am only familiar with the players on the APA Team. I would not want to be the "Test Case" for Bond/McCaskil as it is a very vague law. I don't think any of the parties want to go that route. I do beleive a negotiated SLI is possible with proper fences, equipment seperation, and future equipment designation. My major concern is APA selling our pilots grossly short as they did with LBFO1. The other problem could arise if USAPA tries to grab disproportional flying and/or equipment.


I am convinced USAPA does not want arbitration and will settle, as long as the Nicalou list is not recognized. Therefore, put me down for $10 on a negotiated SLI. Then the lawsuits begin. The other possibility is the parties settle on the majority of issues and send a portion to arbitration. I will stick my neck out and say it is 100% negotiated

Sure is something to think about.


If they get to enforce their idea of a seniority list that is a very good thing for us.

Are you serious that you think that is a good thing for us airways pilots? That the majority gets to enforce their idea of a seniority list? Seriously? Do you want the APA enforcing a seniority list that they think is fair on you? Really?

This next guy. Does he not know there has already been a MB arbitration done! Next did he mention base fences? No equipment fences. That means you and I would be locked off all those new airplanes. You did also notice that he was concerned that the APA would sell the pilots short. Where have we heard that before? Now if the APA is going to try and get more than fair is usapa going to agree to less?

Lastly do you think it is a good idea for usapa to avoid arbitration because they don't know how to do it and SETTLE as long as the Nicolau is not used? Is it reasonable or fair for usapa to settle or agree to less to avoid the Nicolau?

That is what he is saying that usapa will take less to avoid the nicoalu.

You guys better start reading those comment from a different perspective. A perspective of the APA guys trying to get all they can from us and not just about trying to screw the west and avoid the Nicolau.

Usapa has made it known that what you don't want and what you are willing to pay for it. Not position going into negotiations or arbitration. Telling the other side what your bottom line is.

 

[GuntherA320]

Sure is something to think about.


If they get to enforce their idea of a seniority list that is a very good thing for us.

Are you serious that you think that is a good thing for us airways pilots? That the majority gets to enforce their idea of a seniority list? Seriously? Do you want the APA enforcing a seniority list that they think is fair on you? Really?

This next guy. Does he not know there has already been a MB arbitration done! Next did he mention base fences? No equipment fences. That means you and I would be locked off all those new airplanes. You did also notice that he was concerned that the APA would sell the pilots short. Where have we heard that before? Now if the APA is going to try and get more than fair is usapa going to agree to less?

Lastly do you think it is a good idea for usapa to avoid arbitration because they don't know how to do it and SETTLE as long as the Nicolau is not used? Is it reasonable or fair for usapa to settle or agree to less to avoid the Nicolau?

That is what he is saying that usapa will take less to avoid the nicoalu.

You guys better start reading those comment from a different perspective. A perspective of the APA guys trying to get all they can from us and not just about trying to screw the west and avoid the Nicolau.

Usapa has made it known that what you don't want and what you are willing to pay for it. Not position going into negotiations or arbitration. Telling the other side what your bottom line is.

I believe that APA doesn't want this to go to arbitration. They have seen what a "Nicolau" type of award could do to them. I believe that APA should protect their interests (wide bodies). I think if USAPA agrees to let APA protect their interests that we will have a negotiated seniority list instead of an arbitrated one.

 

[dca319]

Just something to think about.

What is there to think about? You just quoted posts from a bunch of pilots who have even less knowledge of what's going on with our situation than some of our most disengaged pilots. Why would we or the west even care what they have to say? The statement that this isn't going into arbitration shows their lack of knowledge and common sense. What entity wouldn't want to unload the burden of a SLI onto a three-man panel and avoid any litigation associated with the final list? The APA will be running for that cover faster than you can say "Nicolau."