If the TWU accepts this extension without any additional revenue, or promise of retro for all, then someone is either high or getting paid off at your union.
Eh Eh want mechanics to accept 2 year contract extension
- Thread starter jetmechjer
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If the TWU accepts this extension without any additional revenue, or promise of retro for all, then someone is either high or getting paid off at your union.
If AA makes more than $500 M in a year, it triggers profitsharing to all workgroups.
I have decent information that supports the hold-off for signing the Boeing deal and potentially the UPS deal on a signed contract for Maint. & Related.
If we sign anything with AA M&E lumped into AA/AMR: we are giving the profits from the 3P work to everyone at AA. Total profit is total profit absent some mechanism for expensing the revenue.
I would bet that the TWU and AA will use the above to craft either a spin-off of AA M&E or some form of contingent compensation package a justification.
In my opinion, contingent compensation is preferrable to the spin-off.
I have decent information that supports the hold-off for signing the Boeing deal and potentially the UPS deal on a signed contract for Maint. & Related.
If we sign anything with AA M&E lumped into AA/AMR: we are giving the profits from the 3P work to everyone at AA. Total profit is total profit absent some mechanism for expensing the revenue.
I would bet that the TWU and AA will use the above to craft either a spin-off of AA M&E or some form of contingent compensation package a justification.
In my opinion, contingent compensation is preferrable to the spin-off.
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
I don't trust the company or Int. to do the right thing for the membership. Why must we "listen" to the company? We did that and got life changing pay & benefit cuts. But we saved AA. Okay, we are saved. Now just give us what we want this time. The company doesn't want to give us what was taken or there wouldn't be a need for them to have us "sit down & explore".
NO ONE SHOULD EVER FORGET WE WERE LIED TO CONCERNING SHARED SACRIFICES. DID AA/TWU THINK PEOPLE WOULD FORGET LIES AND GREED? :angry:
MCI transplant
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<_< ------- Mr. Moderator! Sometimes you have to tell it like it is! And if I should offend anyone with what I'm about to say, I apologies in advance! But here it goes!------- Ken my son, we'll never see all of what we've given up! We've been totally screwed! I've been screwed so many times, sometimes I feel like an ol'whore! So when it happens, believe me I know it! You can huff, and puff, but in the morning the results will be the same! You'll feel used!----- All we can do is make the best of a bad situation. Do I like it? Hell no!------ But that's life! I hope and pray I'm wrong, but I don't see it! :down:
Today I heard that one possible compensation for a two year extension will be in a form of STOCK OPTIONS. I remember a few months back the TWU asked for more stock options after the executive compensation was released. I bet the union and company had this all planned out way back then. Be careful what you ask for, you may just get it. BOHICA is what I'm talking about. 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱 😱
T
The Goose
Guest
My bottom line - I trust the company and its union about as far as I can throw a bull by the tail.
They can begin by giving back what they lied to get. Last time around, it was agreed to give up pay, vacation, etc., for a reward later. Didn't happen, did it?
Them first this time.
Better yet, how about we get some money from the same place the execs did? The shareholders.
A/C FIXER
Advanced
NO ONE SHOULD EVER FORGET WE WERE LIED TO CONCERNING SHARED SACRIFICES. DID AA/TWU THINK PEOPLE WOULD FORGET LIES AND GREED? :angry:
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Yes.
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Yes.
Unfortunately, I think you are correct. Many employees don't seem to realize that the concession wages established a new baseline. They're permanent. That's why there were no snap-backs. The contracts become amendable after five years, but that doesn't mean the wage cuts will be restored. Far from it.
Here's what AA said about the concessions in April, 2003:
http://www.shareholder.com/aa/EdgarDetail....1&SID=03-00
Ken MacTiernan and many others keep talking about getting back all that was given plus a raise. Does anyone seriously think that AA is gonna pony up the $620 million given up by the TWU plus a raise on top of that? Do these guys seriously believe that AA is gonna restore $1.62 billion a year in wages and benefits to the three major represented work groups? Plus a raise?
My prediction: AA will listen to modest raise demands, like several percent or so. The pilots and their 31% demand? Laughable. Restoration of all the concessions for any workgroup plus a raise? Ludicrous. Ain't gonna happen.
Problem is, most employees kept showing up for work every day since May, 2003. Some loudly piss and moan about it, but the reality is that it's still the best gig they've got. Lotsa people post about how they've got much better opportunities elsewhere. Far too few have acted on those lucrative alternatives. As long as enough keep showing up for work each day at the concession wage rates, there won't be any reason to increase them substantially. On the other hand, if everyone were quitting and AA couldn't replace them at current wages, then those wages would go up. You know - Supply and Demand in Action.
Oh, yeah, I'm forgetting the silver bullet of Self-Help. Yeah. That worked out real well for those poor souls at Scab Air a couple years back. If the airplanes were bolted to the ground, like the NYC subway system or never left a particular city, like the NYC bus system, self-help would mean something. But those airplanes can easily be flown to SIN or HKG or PVG or SAL or plenty of other places for A, B and C Checks. Scabs can be hired to cover line maintenance.
Sure, you can negotiate exhaustively and eventually be released from mediation and choose to strke. And if you're successful and shut things down, you'll cost AA hundreds of millions of dollars. That will, of course, magically cause AA to reconsider and restore the $1.62 billion of concessions plus a raise. Uh-huh. You can print T-shirts and signs and pretend you're just like the tough Eastern employees who shut the place down. Good luck with that.
Here's an article in today's Star-Telegram about the letters between Arpey and Little:
http://www.star-telegram.com/business/story/238876.html
And an AP article about it:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070918/american_ai...labor.html?.v=1
Thanks alot, you just ruined my lunch by posting that crAAp. :down:
I guess the twu's goal is to have maintenance put money in the company's pocket, so they in turn they can distribute a small percentage of it to all twu workers. Sounds like reason enough to dump the twu, it would be much for profitable for those bringing in the cash for the company to distribute it amongst the same workers instead of all workers.
eolesen
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I agree. Asking for a percentage of the profits for third party work is entirely reasonable, just as it is customary for salespeople to earn a either a flat rate or a percentage of the revenue they bring into the company.
A spin off on the other hand would perhaps better position you for getting getting stock options in the spun off entity, but it would also set the stage to have your contracts tossed out of the RLA's protection and into Taft-Hartley/NRLA. Can multiple unions represent the same workgroup under NRLA? I'm fairly certain it can differ by state.
T
The Goose
Guest
"Little said he continues to support Arpey, despite executive and management stock bonuses that have angered employees in recent years. "I think he still has the corporation's and the employees' best interests at heart," Little said." From Star-Telegram
Start a card drive - I'll even sign one. I've tried to make sense of what these idiots are doing but this is over the top, even for Little. AMFA national officers might be a group of amateurs/elitists and the Teamsters might be corrupt as hell, but neither can be much worse than what we have now. Perhaps we can show the company the meaning of the word "corruption".
To me, it looks like we're going down - we need to drag a few with us.
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH
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These news articles definitely show which side the TWU international is on and it definitely ain't the workers. I think Jim Little needs a new title: American Airlines Minister of Propaganda.
How can any union person support this "union" anymore?
How can any union person support this "union" anymore?
T
The Goose
Guest
The spin-off is coming; make no mistake about it, regardless of what we do.
This is about what I thought the company would do; that is, tie pay to performance. Has anyone noticed that the ATA is predicting a more glum year for its members? Kinda hard to perform with $80+ oil.
As I said before - this will be structured in such a way to deny anything to the workers while management continues to create new shares and take their bonuses from the stockholders though share dilution. I may take a different attitude if the all the money came from the same pot, but it won't. Dogs don't care to have other dogs nosing around in their food dish, either.
All that's required is to mitigate the paper losses of the large institutional holders like FMR (Fidelity) and DE Shaw - keep them happy and the board of directors stays in place, freeing the present mismanagement to continue its plunder of the company stock with the board's blessings.
Complete restoration to the pre-concession contract might get me to vote for a 1 month extension. If Arpey wants 2 years, he and his minions will have to resign and take the board of directors with them.
I apologize. Didn't mean to ruin your lunch. Maybe you should wait 45 minutes after lunch before surfing.
Yesterday, Boomer posted something about the 3rd Party work producing profits that would then be shared by all employees. You seem to share that sentiment. Problem with that is that you assume that the 3rd party work is actually profitable (and doesn't just lessen the expense of keeping so much AA maintenance in-house). I have no idea which it is. Can't imagine that you guys do either, especially with the "Everything is a Secret" TWU withholding most all info from you.
Another problem with the "those are OUR workgroup's profits" position is this: All employees in all workgroups can help contribute to profitability. Pilots can help conserve fuel (and the converse is certainly true). That adds to the profits to be shared by everyone.
FAs can help contribute to profitability by being really good salespeople, pushing the BOB, the duty-free and the other misc onboard revenue items. Those profits are then shared by everyone.
Mechanics can help contribute to profitability thru 3rd party work (perhaps) and by innovations in maintenance procedures. In years past, AA has proudly advertised the cost-saving ideas of its mechanics. For example, everyone learned from one of the TV news items about the engine jig that simplifies the physical task of getting to its various parts; IIRC, it allows the engine to be rotated vertically. Another famous example was a part that AA was paying many hundreds or thousands for someone else to rebuild when an AA employee showed it could be rebuilt inhouse for a tiny fraction of that amount and so far, it's worked out great. That adds to profits to be shared by everyone.
I'm sure there are ways that Fleet and non-unionized agents can contribute to increased profits. Profits that are shared by everyone.
Management can improve profits in many ways, like successful fuel hedging. That adds to the profits to be shared by everyone.
That's what profit-sharing is all about: The company makes bigger profits, then EVERYONE shares the gain.
I realize that many employees are of the opinion that AA has not shared any of the gains so far. As I've posted before, that requires that one conveniently forget about those 35 million non-manangement options. But lots of vocal employees seem capable of such selective memory lapses.
That's why it makes some sense for employees to have a stake in their employer if their employer typically produces profits instead of losses. That leaves out the legacy airlines.
If I did what you did, I'd probably want all my pay restored. And like TWU Informer, I'd want all my wages guaranteed, and no variable comp. But since AA doesn't have $1.62 billion a year to restore all those concessions, I'd be looking for as big a raise as AA can afford right now PLUS as much potential upside as I could squeeze from the golden goose. Stock options AND Profit Sharing AND anything else I could get. That way, when the stock goes way up, I participate. When the company produces profits, I share. The more the better.
IMO, what management needs to do is do something innovative: Like exchange a large portion of the company's equity (more than the puny19% represented by the 2003 options) to the employees in exchange for a long-term agreement. One that increases wages by a reality-based percentage each year (not the fantasy-inspired 31%, for instance) and contains substantial and real sharing of the upside. That would, of course, help AA plan for the much-needed fleet renewal that's looming on the horizon. The fleet renewal that AA doesn't have the money to pay for. But I doubt that's gonna happen either.
With your present union, your chances of success (recovering the concessions) are probably nil. Good luck fixing that problem and in recouping as much as the concessions as you can.
LGA Fleet Service
Veteran
We're screwed.Get ready boys, Little has already delivered us to the company...again.
