OH contract

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Are you more obsessed with me or Politics. Get this bro. Again I don't care about you or your politics but obviously it pisses you off that I'm telling you that so now you're following me around the board to try and harass me. You're nothing more than a pathetic online stalker.

I posted that opinion and so what if it had that line in it. I didn't write it you putz. Sorry I'm not obsessed with Politics like you are.

You really need psychiatric help. Beat it you pest.

Just showing people the manipulating troll behind the curtain.
 
You know you could always put me on ignore. 🙂
 
Stop trying to use the UNION and this forum to push your political BS.

 

[Flying low]

You know you could always put me on ignore.f

Not a bad idea. I for one am extremely tired of La li and Wewishes from using this board for their own personal arguments.

 

[Kev3188]

Each situatuon has its own chanlleges which should not be thought less of by the other.

+1

 

[topDawg]

I'm sorry and excuse me for interrupting. I know that you're PO'd at the guy for making an insinuation that OH should try to compete on a financial playing field with third party MRO's and I 100% disagree with that ridiculousness. But I'm curious?

"An A&P at a big airline is just a job many don't want to do anymore"

Is that really the feeling you and others have? Between the lines of a lot of things said on here over the years I always still got the impression that most of you loved what you do? Most of you guys really know how to dig deep when talking about your craft and all its intricacies. That's kind of an unexpected statement especially coming from you Dawg?

I was more or less talking about future generations. 
 

Take away what you want from it and how long it's taken to get back. But aren't you guys now earning around $100,000 with your license premiums without OT? That's FAR more than the average person with a Masters Degree in the US makes. How much was the cost when you started to get that education and those Licences? Back in 95 I remember the school cost about $12,000.

Again not meant to be a pot shot but do you really hate what you do that much?

All kidding aside. I think being an Aircraft Mechanic would have been pretty cool. I just didn't want to be stuck on nights for 10 years and maybe didn't have the focus to go for it. But I do admire you guys that did.

Its not just about the pay. See part of the problem is because of the loss of pensions and all the outsourcing we are stagnate. That means guys with what is really pretty good time (10-15 years) are stuck on 3rds or 2nd in Atlanta. At time times the only way a helper can get moved up is go to a hard to fill for two years etc. etc. etc.
Does that effect me? no. But unlike some "mechanics" I don't have IGM. 
It does however effect the guys on the middle of the list who have been stuck in the same place. So yeah, its great to make 80-100K but how great is it when you are top of the scale, working 3rds on Christmas because you still can't hold it off? Then how great is it when you see someone like Richard Anderson making almost 100M in just the front half of 2016 but the company, making billions, had to cut thousands of jobs to save ~ 70million a year. (high balling)
 
And that is more problem with the stupidity of the idea by bigjets. This is the best time this industry has ever had. Margins are higher than most companies in ANY industry could dream of producing.......but yet, even after getting his pay raise, we still need to put concessions on the guys who work in base simply because he thinks working the line means you are hot ****. 
 
how anyone is openly proposing major concessions that would set the craft back another 40 years is simply amazing to me. We should be making gains, big gains......and NOT just in pay!

 

[WeAAsles]

I was more or less talking about future generations. 
 

Its not just about the pay. See part of the problem is because of the loss of pensions and all the outsourcing we are stagnate. That means guys with what is really pretty good time (10-15 years) are stuck on 3rds or 2nd in Atlanta. At time times the only way a helper can get moved up is go to a hard to fill for two years etc. etc. etc.
Does that effect me? no. But unlike some "mechanics" I don't have IGM. 
It does however effect the guys on the middle of the list who have been stuck in the same place. So yeah, its great to make 80-100K but how great is it when you are top of the scale, working 3rds on Christmas because you still can't hold it off? Then how great is it when you see someone like Richard Anderson making almost 100M in just the front half of 2016 but the company, making billions, had to cut thousands of jobs to save ~ 70million a year. (high balling)
 
And that is more problem with the stupidity of the idea by bigjets. This is the best time this industry has ever had. Margins are higher than most companies in ANY industry could dream of producing.......but yet, even after getting his pay raise, we still need to put concessions on the guys who work in base simply because he thinks working the line means you are hot ####. 
 
how anyone is openly proposing major concessions that would set the craft back another 40 years is simply amazing to me. We should be making gains, big gains......and NOT just in pay!

Thanks for the clarity Dawg. I've always thought QOL had to have a price tag to the individual. Like I said, I really didn't like the idea of being stuck on overnight for a whole decade.

I have 21 years and don't even want to be a CC yet because the best I could get is partial weekends with a 1500 or 1600 start time. Not enough money in the job for me to want it and so far (knock on wood) the back and shoulders are strong.

 

[topDawg]

Thanks for the clarity Dawg. I've always thought QOL had to have a price tag to the individual. Like I said, I really didn't like the idea of being stuck on overnight for a whole decade.

I have 21 years and don't even want to be a CC yet because the best I could get is partial weekends with a 1500 or 1600 start time. Not enough money in the job for me to want it and so far (knock on wood) the back and shoulders are strong.

 
It shouldn't be the way it is right now. 
 
If airlines like Delta, American and United got back down to doing 75-80% of their work in-house the seniority situation would work itself out quickly. 

 

[Kev3188]

I was more or less talking about future generations. 
 
Its not just about the pay. See part of the problem is because of the loss of pensions and all the outsourcing we are stagnate. That means guys with what is really pretty good time (10-15 years) are stuck on 3rds or 2nd in Atlanta. At time times the only way a helper can get moved up is go to a hard to fill for two years etc. etc. etc.
Does that effect me? no. But unlike some "mechanics" I don't have IGM. 
It does however effect the guys on the middle of the list who have been stuck in the same place. So yeah, its great to make 80-100K but how great is it when you are top of the scale, working 3rds on Christmas because you still can't hold it off? Then how great is it when you see someone like Richard Anderson making almost 100M in just the front half of 2016 but the company, making billions, had to cut thousands of jobs to save ~ 70million a year. (high balling)
 
And that is more problem with the stupidity of the idea by bigjets. This is the best time this industry has ever had. Margins are higher than most companies in ANY industry could dream of producing.......but yet, even after getting his pay raise, we still need to put concessions on the guys who work in base simply because he thinks working the line means you are hot ####. 
 
how anyone is openly proposing major concessions that would set the craft back another 40 years is simply amazing to me. We should be making gains, big gains......and NOT just in pay!

That stagnation is a much larger issue than I think anyone in the C-Suite wants to realize...

 

[topDawg]

That stagnation is a much larger issue than I think anyone in the C-Suite wants to realize...

 
The see it, they just don't care. Why should they? 
 
They have no real push back from labor. At least for mechanics, most just continue to worry about pay and not work rules. 

 

[Kev3188]

The see it, they just don't care. Why should they? 
 
They have no real push back from labor. At least for mechanics, most just continue to worry about pay and not work rules.

I hear ya.

Ideally, they'd worry because they want a happy and/or productive workforce.

Realistically, they should care because it's the kind of thing that tends to get cards signed...

 

[bigjets]

the problem with his idea is one of the largest MRO in the world is what HE and HIS UNION have been trying to get past in pay. Anyone remember Delta + 7....er 3? Yeah, pretty big MRO there. 
 
IMHO bigjets should just move to management, he fits in better there. Having a mechanic trying to take food out of other mechanics mouths is a big reason why we, as a craft, have been on a nice down hill path for the last 20+ years. Fighting management is possible. Fights management, other "mechanics" who think they are hot #### because they do a different job than others, and unions like the TWU and IAM.....it just isn't possible. That is why all of us are just going down. The craft is going down. An A&P at a big airline is just a job many don't want to do anymore, and people like bigjets are making sure the few that do are getting #### on as much as possible so that he can make an extra penny.

My theory is to help aircraft mechanics throughout the USA, your theory protect yourself.

My theory,

eliminate OSM classification giving those mechs a raise. , bring back A&P jobs back to the USA, bring THOUSANDS of jobs back to TULE and PIT.

Raise the wage of MRO mechanics in the industry all the while using the excellent quality of work provided by AA base Maint to set the standard for all airlines, instead of what we have now.

Your way,

Continue to outsource jobs as long as you got yours.
Turn down contracts unless you get exactly what you want. ( proven a losing strategy, turned down raises and contract improvements, only to lose everything without getting anything for it.

Before you get on your high horse, OH always had the majority but yet the OSM category was implemented with your blessing, you created the permanent B scale. As long as you got your raise while mechs you work with are being paid less because you got yours.
Nothing says you can't transfer to a line station.

My way thousands of jobs and 100% scope, your way, IGM.

It's all a mute point anyway unless the company and association could work a contract, I don't see any innovation to try and bring back skilled labor jobs back into USA by AFL CIO. It also sounds like the OH guys that are at top pay would vote it down, pretty sure the OSM mechs would vote it in, giving them a raise and creating more seniority, I wouldn't doubt the X-OH guys vote for it as I heard them say as much, anything to get back home. A couple years of commuting will do that,


Don't get your undies all twisted up, this is just all talk on an Internet forum.

 

[topDawg]

My theory is to help aircraft mechanics throughout the USA, your theory protect yourself.

thats rich. You are the one who has posted many times that you would take US's scope for Delta + whatever even if it meant cutting thousands of jobs. Now you are looking out for the mechanic by cutting the pay of people in base maintenance? AAR offers line maintenance too. Maybe you need to make 25 an hour to compete? You're in right?
 

My theory,

eliminate OSM classification giving those mechs a raise. , bring back A&P jobs back to the USA, bring THOUSANDS of jobs back to TULE and PIT.

Or hey, now that you got your pay raise you can let the adults talk and go back to kid table. All you are trying to do is help management destroy base maintenance even more because you have a hate for Tulsa and think you are hot **** because you work on the line. 
 

Raise the wage of MRO mechanics in the industry all the while using the excellent quality of work provided by AA base Maint to set the standard for all airlines, instead of what we have now.

How exactly are you raise anyones pay? You are cutting thousands of American, United, Delta and Southwest's base mechanic's pay but you believe AAR, HEACO, ATS etc are going to raise their pay of the few mechanics they have? Why would they? 

 

Your way,

Continue to outsource jobs as long as you got yours.
Turn down contracts unless you get exactly what you want. ( proven a losing strategy, turned down raises and contract improvements, only to lose everything without getting anything for it.

I want to continue outsource?
Is this guy serious?

How about this, I am willing to take a 4 to 5 dollar an hour pay CUT across the board to bring all the work Delta sends out in-house. Would you do the same at American?

You have posted time and time again that you want Tulsa to get shut down so you can get yours. Now you are all of a sudden changing into a scope hawk? bull crap.
 

Before you get on your high horse, OH always had the majority but yet the OSM category was implemented with your blessing, you created the permanent B scale. As long as you got your raise while mechs you work with are being paid less because you got yours.

All you are doing right now is showing you have no idea how this industry works.
OSM/ASM must happen. This stupid dream of having all A&Ps do the work isn't going to happen. That ship has sailed. 
On top of that, if the system American uses is like Delta's, the helper/OSM/ASM etc. spots are a way for unlicensed people to get a foot in the door while they are earning their A&P. That gives them time so when they are able to move they don't start off with nothing. 
 

Nothing says you can't transfer to a line station.

no thanks. I enjoy my job. I could hold a line spot in Atlanta easy if I wanted, I just don't want too.
Again, I don't think you are amazing because you work the line. You are not a better mechanic than me or anyone else that has A&P simply because you work the line. You made the choice to work the line, its not Tulsa's fault. Its not my fault. Its not American, Delta, United, Horton, Parker, Arpey etc. etc. etc fault.......its your choice. So stop acting all entitled. 
 

My way thousands of jobs and 100% scope, your way, IGM.

Your way puts our craft back another 40 years. Like I said above, I'd take a pay cut across the board to bring in work. You have already said you wouldn't.
 

 

[chilokie1]

I think bigjets is forgetting that Tulsa County & the City Of Tulsa are already is subsidizing 
TULE, the people of Tulsa aspect top wages for their tax $'s. I doubt many MRO's get that
kind of support, so they pay lower wages. 

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I think bigjets is forgetting that Tulsa County & the City Of Tulsa are already is subsidizing 
TULE, the people of Tulsa aspect top wages for their tax $'s. I doubt many MRO's get that
kind of support, so they pay lower wages. 

Proposition 2: Capital Improvements/American Airlines – $22.3 Million (2.5% of a penny). This proposal was an incentive for American Airlines, a leading employer in Tulsa for more than 50 years, to retain existing jobs and attract new ones at the company’s Tulsa Maintenance Base by providing funds for capital improvements, equipment, tooling and training.

 

[MetalMover]

thats rich. You are the one who has posted many times that you would take US's scope for Delta + whatever even if it meant cutting thousands of jobs. Now you are looking out for the mechanic by cutting the pay of people in base maintenance? AAR offers line maintenance too. Maybe you need to make 25 an hour to compete? You're in right?
 

Or hey, now that you got your pay raise you can let the adults talk and go back to kid table. All you are trying to do is help management destroy base maintenance even more because you have a hate for Tulsa and think you are hot #### because you work on the line. 
 

How exactly are you raise anyones pay? You are cutting thousands of American, United, Delta and Southwest's base mechanic's pay but you believe AAR, HEACO, ATS etc are going to raise their pay of the few mechanics they have? Why would they? 
 

I want to continue outsource?
Is this guy serious?
How about this, I am willing to take a 4 to 5 dollar an hour pay CUT across the board to bring all the work Delta sends out in-house. Would you do the same at American?
You have posted time and time again that you want Tulsa to get shut down so you can get yours. Now you are all of a sudden changing into a scope hawk? bull crap.
 


All you are doing right now is showing you have no idea how this industry works.
OSM/ASM must happen. This stupid dream of having all A&Ps do the work isn't going to happen. That ship has sailed. 
On top of that, if the system American uses is like Delta's, the helper/OSM/ASM etc. spots are a way for unlicensed people to get a foot in the door while they are earning their A&P. That gives them time so when they are able to move they don't start off with nothing. 
 

no thanks. I enjoy my job. I could hold a line spot in Atlanta easy if I wanted, I just don't want too.
Again, I don't think you are amazing because you work the line. You are not a better mechanic than me or anyone else that has A&P simply because you work the line. You made the choice to work the line, its not Tulsa's fault. Its not my fault. Its not American, Delta, United, Horton, Parker, Arpey etc. etc. etc fault.......its your choice. So stop acting all entitled. 
 

Your way puts our craft back another 40 years. Like I said above, I'd take a pay cut across the board to bring in work. You have already said you wouldn't.

Good post. But keep in mind that the TWU has managed to negotiate contract after contract to "save jobs." We always lagged the industry because we did most work in house. Title 1 numbers once doubled current numbers and outsourcing has increased dramatically. It is admirable that you are willing to take pay cuts to save jobs but that has been the bill of goods sold us for far too long. We have been behind the eight ball for so long I find it very difficult to say I can NOT and WILL NOT take paycuts for jobs that will only turn out to be an empty promise.

 

[topDawg]

Good post. But keep in mind that the TWU has managed to negotiate contract after contract to "save jobs." We always lagged the industry because we did most work in house. Title 1 numbers once doubled current numbers and outsourcing has increased dramatically. It is admirable that you are willing to take pay cuts to save jobs but that has been the bill of goods sold us for far too long. We have been behind the eight ball for so long I find it very difficult to say I can NOT and WILL NOT take paycuts for jobs that will only turn out to be an empty promise.

 
and right now you shouldn't take a pay cut to save jobs. You should get a pay raise AND jobs.