Eh Eh want mechanics to accept 2 year contract extension

[TWU informer]

I have had enough!

Will the following folks please send me a private e-mail to the following e-mail address

[email protected]

AMFAMAN
Bob Owens
Chuck Shaulk
Ken McTiernan
Dan Cunningham
1AA
Goose
Princess KIDAGAKASH

or else, at least one mechanic working at the following stations:

MCIE
AFW
DFW
SAN
LAX
JFK
ORD
MIA
STL

Please provide the following information:

Contact Real Name
Contact Phone Number
Station You are working at
Hours of work
Days Off

I will insure that your real identity on this bulletin board is not compromised. If you cannot trust me on this matter, then dont bother contacting me.

Please do not contact any of the many mouth pieces or friends of mine Tulsa that may claim to speak on my behalf, they do not, I will speak for myself on this matter.

We must begin with structure to accomplish anything meaningful.

Details of the project will not be posted on this or any other bulletin board unless a fully formed committee agrees to do so.

If need be, I will convert the change514.com website into a headquarters website for this project.

Please involve yourself.

Waiting to hear from you:

[email protected]

 

[Planesight]

If I did what you did, I'd probably want all my pay restored. And like TWU Informer, I'd want all my wages guaranteed, and no variable comp. But since AA doesn't have $1.62 billion a year to restore all those concessions, I'd be looking for as big a raise as AA can afford right now PLUS as much potential upside as I could squeeze from the golden goose. Stock options AND Profit Sharing AND anything else I could get. That way, when the stock goes way up, I participate. When the company produces profits, I share. The more the better.

IMO, what management needs to do is do something innovative: Like exchange a large portion of the company's equity (more than the puny19% represented by the 2003 options) to the employees in exchange for a long-term agreement. One that increases wages by a reality-based percentage each year (not the fantasy-inspired 31%, for instance) and contains substantial and real sharing of the upside. That would, of course, help AA plan for the much-needed fleet renewal that's looming on the horizon. The fleet renewal that AA doesn't have the money to pay for. But I doubt that's gonna happen either.

I know I got attacked yesterday, but I still think looking at new ideas like the one FWAAA threw out there requires some of these side conversations everyone seems to be so opposed to. If this fails, the wost that happens is everyone goes back to square one and starts over.

A full in-house MRO with a chance to share the gains is a worthy goal for both sides and AA seems to be one of the only airlines where that is realistic. Why not at least discuss a framework for this?

 

[TWU informer]

I know I got attacked yesterday, but I still think looking at new ideas like the one FWAAA threw out there requires some of these side conversations everyone seems to be so opposed to. If this fails, the wost that happens is everyone goes back to square one and starts over.

A full in-house MRO with a chance to share the gains is a worthy goal for both sides and AA seems to be one of the only airlines where that is realistic. Why not at least discuss a framework for this?

New ideas are not the problem with me, the problem with me is trust on who decides and/or controls how much gain or loss there is to share.

For Example, during the big push to reach a $500 Million Dollar goal is Tulsa, there was a huge savings claim for bringing in-house and manufacturing fuel tank cover plates for the Md-80. In the middle of the process someone decided to eliminate the blast process or change the manufacture procedure. This eventually caused 33 aircraft to be out of service, untold hours of overtime to strip and re-paint cover plates, overtime out the gazoo to check fuel filter, tanks, pumps, at line stations ect.

I inquired several times as to what the total cost of this mistake was along with which internal budget was charged, and was this cost deducted from the $500 Million.

To date, I still have no answers.

We are bringing in some Landing Gear work, and there is major shortage of quailifed machinist in Tulsa. Some work has already been turned away due to lack of qualified perosnel. This precision grinding takes great skill and experience. If one was to make a mistake and scrap one of those pieces of work, God knows what that would cost. Union work rules and current payscale do not allow for hiring of highly skilled and experienced machinist.

Now, why would I put my pay and lively in a position of being dependent on someone not to make such a mistake, a system that doesnt allow for hiring top skill and instead tries to upgrade from within and train relatives or under skilled employees, a farce of a budget accounting system, and a work place where accountability is practically nill?

And you want me to consider putting my pay and benefit package in the hands of this?

Are you $$hitting ME?
NO THANKS IS MY ANSWER.....PERIOD!

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

I know I got attacked yesterday, but I still think looking at new ideas like the one FWAAA threw out there requires some of these side conversations everyone seems to be so opposed to. If this fails, the wost that happens is everyone goes back to square one and starts over.

A full in-house MRO with a chance to share the gains is a worthy goal for both sides and AA seems to be one of the only airlines where that is realistic. Why not at least discuss a framework for this?

If you re-read your second paragraph, it's obvious that you're in the same boat as the rest of us and our concerns. Share the gains of an MRO is fine, but this extension is not just for maintenance, it's for all the twu workgroups. Exactly the reason why we need a union for our craft and class, so if a deal is cut for shared gain, it stays within our craft and class.

Informer...count me in for whatever you're thinking.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

<_< ------- Mr. Moderator! Sometimes you have to tell it like it is! And if I should offend anyone with what I'm about to say, I apologies in advance! But here it goes!------- Ken my son, we'll never see all of what we've given up! We've been totally screwed! I've been screwed so many times, sometimes I feel like an ol'whore! So when it happens, believe me I know it! You can huff, and puff, but in the morning the results will be the same! You'll feel used!----- All we can do is make the best of a bad situation. Do I like it? Hell no!------ But that's life! I hope and pray I'm wrong, but I don't see it! :down:

MCI,

You are correct in the fact that I may never see what was taken. But I will try and do what I can so future generations of AMTs have it better tham me. You (TWA) have indeed screwed but that was because there was no support from other AMTs at other airlines. It will take "huff and puff" plus communication amongst all AMTs to make a positive difference. The AMTs at NWA told the iam to do their job and FIGHT for their members. They did not. The twu had better fight for us at AA.

And, hey. You've been wrong before. LOL

 

[Wretched Wrench]

From the Star Telegram article:

"At the meeting, Little told Arpey that union members are willing to continue collaborating with management, but only for some type of additional compensation, according to sources familiar with the negotiations."

Interesting choice of word. When I was a lad, that was not a good word.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the Yahoo article:

"American laid off workers and cut benefits in 2003, but still wants to reduce labor costs .

Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[eolesen]

Interesting choice of word. When I was a lad, that was not a good word.

...and it was probably perfectly acceptable to be gay.

 

[Bagbelt]

I think everyone needs to calm down, the rumor mill is changing hourly. As bad as the union can be you at least have to wait until some sort of official proposal comes out. I don't want stock and I don't want a bonus with a 40% tax. Realistically I would expect a few bucks an hour and some minor language changes. Anyone who thinks 40 years of negotiations are going to be made up in one deal is dreaming. If that was taken seriously we would have had snap back provisions.

 

[MCDP]

This topic is certainly timely for me. I just received my recall notice by FedEx yesterday. For me, it is just another reason not to accept the recall and stay where I'm at.

 

[MCI transplant]

MCI,

You are correct in the fact that I may never see what was taken. But I will try and do what I can so future generations of AMTs have it better tham me. You (TWA) have indeed screwed but that was because there was no support from other AMTs at other airlines. It will take "huff and puff" plus communication amongst all AMTs to make a positive difference. The AMTs at NWA told the iam to do their job and FIGHT for their members. They did not. The twu had better fight for us at AA.

And, hey. You've been wrong before. LOL

<_< ------ That's what I like about you Ken, you have a positive attitude! My only concern is that you also have to be realistic! My fighting days are almost over. I plan on retiring here in the not too distant future. So it's all I can say is I hope you all will do better in your fight than we did in ours!------ And yes, there has been times that I've been wrong!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

...and it was probably perfectly acceptable to be gay.

We have a new brand of kimchi that is now our favorite.

 

[The Goose]

These news articles definitely show which side the TWU international is on and it definitely ain't the workers. I think Jim Little needs a new title: American Airlines Minister of Propaganda.

How can any union person support this "union" anymore?

Baghdad Jim? I love it.

 

[FWAAA]

I think everyone needs to calm down, the rumor mill is changing hourly. As bad as the union can be you at least have to wait until some sort of official proposal comes out. I don't want stock and I don't want a bonus with a 40% tax. Realistically I would expect a few bucks an hour and some minor language changes. Anyone who thinks 40 years of negotiations are going to be made up in one deal is dreaming. If that was taken seriously we would have had snap back provisions.

You don't need to fear large bonuses for tax reasons. About that bolded portion: I assume you're referring to the rate of withholding on one-time bonus payments which are often higher than your actual marginal tax rate. You get that over-withholding back the following winter when you file your return.

To repeat, bonus payments are taxed at your actual marginal tax rate, regardless of the amount of tax withheld. If I worked where you do, I'd demand some type of upside potential in addition to the somewhat stingy profit sharing of 15% of everything over $500 million of profit.

I'm genuinely curious: Why don't you want stock? Many loudly complain about the stock given to Arpey and the other 800+ privileged execs last year and this year and then turn around and say they don't want any. I'm not suggesting that you accept stock INSTEAD of that raise of a few bucks an hour. I'm suggesting that you demand a large pile of stock IN ADDITION TO that modest hourly raise. Or at least a pile of options with a strike price equal to the market value on the date of issue (like the last options).

Had your idiot union leaders demanded that in April, 2003, you'd be down a whole hellava lot less than you are. I'm talking about a large pile of stock, like 50% or 75% of the equity of the company, not the 19% pittance the 35 million options represented.

Side note: Went back and read some of the threads from that timeframe this past summer and uniformly, the consensus was that the 35 million non-management stock options were worthless because everyone was completely certain that AA would file a Ch 11 petition anyway, rendering the stock worthless and that AA would demand additional wage concessions during the bankruptcy.

As a group, you guys are sorta deficient at predicting the future. All three unions utterly failed. $8.1 billion of total compensation given up over the five years of the restructuring agreements' terms with nothing in return except smaller paychecks and maybe a few thousand from the options.

Overall, your expectation (few bucks an hour and some modest rule changes) is probably accurate. Of course, the TWU has let you down plenty of times before, and if history is a guide, things might not turn out as well as your expectations.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I'm genuinely curious: Why don't you want stock? Many loudly complain about the stock given to Arpey and the other 800+ privileged execs last year and this year and then turn around and say they don't want any.

FWAA,

I'll take stock. As long as I get as many shares as Arpey and the gang get. Otherwise, NO "nontraditional compensation" and NO extension. How many times must it be said by the AMTs at AA that we want what was taken during concessions given back. I hope our negotiators make a paper airplane out of the company proposal and write the letters AMFA on the sides and toss it the int.'s way so they might get a clue as to the anger that is behind every wrench in the syste.

 

[TWU informer]

After reading this exchange between Little and Arpey. I am now convinced that there was NO detailed PROPOSAL from AA as the TWU has claimed.

Instead, a committee had to be formed to come up with a proposal at the request of Arpey.

Check this out:

Little - Arpey Communications

If it is true that Arpey made a formal detailed proposal to the negotiating committee as claimed, then a small ad-hoc committee was negotiating behind the full and official negotiation committee's back.

Once you read Arpey's response to Little, there is either

A... more communications beyond this, or

B... a small committee consisting of unknown's was formed behind the backs of the negotiating committee.

or

C... The truth probably is that NO DETAILED proposal was actually made at all, instead the negotiating committee has been split by the company to come up with a proposal.

Why would the International and/or our Negotiating Committee be so blinded by this attempt by AA to reduce the size of the negotiating committee for coming up with a proposal? That is why it takes 2 weeks for the so-called sub-committee to "REVIEW" the so-called "Proposal" from AA. :unsure:

At least that is what appears to have taken place to me!