Doh And Usair

[SegmentKing]

.. I bet there are a couple hundred HP FA's now wishing they never voted in the AFA... and remember, your management warned you about integration before you all voted...

 

[lax]

Why are such clear cut and dry C&B's agreed by both carriers not ok now? Why agree to something then not want to adhere to it? Whether anyone feels DOH fair is beside the point. It was agreed by "ALL" carriers before any of the merger buzz today came about. Boy, this IS getting old huh?

[post="299968"][/post]​

i agree that the c&b's are clear. however, the dispute is does not apprear to be about "clarity", its about "fairness." regardless of what rules and regs we live under in life, they will never accomodate every circumstance we face. therefore, it begs the question, "why" are the rules and regs established in the first place? 'easy,' to create an environment of "justice" for ALL of those they serve. i feel it is important not to confuse the spirit of the law with the letter. i do not believe the afa created the doh policy to reward the large percentage of emp's of one carrier while in effect stapling most of emp's of another. but because of the 'letter of the law' (unless theres room for interpretation) the usariens will probably get there way, but words like "fair," "just," "equitable," and the like should never escape their mouths. last, i have heard that this transaction is termed a "merger." if this transaciton(hypothetically of course) was a buyout would the afa policy be applied differently? and if the answer is NO, would the people here who support doh be willing to change or amend the C&B? again if the answer is NO is just lends further support that many rules and regs are too broad and are not applicable in every circumstance to ultimately produce their desired effect-----JUSTICE FOR ALL!!! :down:

 

[desertgal]

I wish I knew how to quote several different posts into one reply, because there was a lot of sensible posts on this thread.
Too bad none of them came from my coworkers at HP.

As far as "stapling" is concerned, this is a term some of the vocal HPs like to throw around. However, at 16years bidding seniority, I don't get the feeling I will be on the bottom of the list. I'm sure there are plenty US who are junior to me.

I LOVED firstamendment's post recounting his/her history thru various mergers.
And some one else who mentioned HP has been isolated, welcome to the real world/big guys.

I think that may be it in a nutshell. Fear. Many HP FAs ar fearful. And change. Who moved my cheese? etc.
I know hulagirl and myself are not the only two HP FAs who are able to look to the future and see the job security this merger provides, nor are we the only two who do not bury our heads in the sand as far as where would HP be w/o this merger.
But, from reading the HPafa forum, it sure feels like we are the minority. Only because there are a VERY vocal few.

Just today at my son's school, I spoke w/an HP FA who said, "I heard there are 800 US FAs commuting out of LAX!?"
Of course, her fear being they would all want PHX and bump her.
I told her I didn't know if that was true, had never heard it, and prob not all of them would want PHX flying, anyway.
This is from a gal who works zero hours five months out of the year, appx 20 hours each in another five, and the rest (2!) she flies the 40hour min.

 

[Travelpro72]

If you read the C&B's DOH portion it seems pretty cut and dry to me. Very clear actually. I knew of it before. Many years ago actually when I was hired. I'm sure everyone at HP was made aware as well. Again, if this were a "Merger" with a much junior carrier to HP would this be an issue? Another what if.... I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe they would not want DOH then.

 

[A330US]

CLT RULES !

 

[luvn737s]

AWA F/A's....Welcome to the Real World.....you've been guarded for soo long not having to worry about all of this crap......but now you are part of the big boys and this is how they play....by the rules! Sucks doesn't it......you'll adjust we all have....and in the end you understand how fair it actually is! Remember, your CEO wanted this for you! You can always pick up your toys and go play in someone else's backyard.....that's what's been happening over here at US!

[post="299941"][/post]​

Now that's the kind of thinking HP needs! 20 years of losing money, 2 times BK, Full Pay To The Last Day kind of backward vision that will help lead US to , um, well, more of the same.

Except with the broken remnants of AWA employees' careers in their wake.

 

[700UW]

20 years of losing money?

Get a grip on reality.

Dont' let the facts get in your way. And HP is a member of the BK club.

You must be a junior employee, but I would bet you don't work for either carrier and are just a pot stirrer.

 

[acmech]

Hopefully after all is said and done, people will be able to go and live where they want to in the system. I have had enough of this aviation gypsy life going from one city to another just to stay employed.

 

[luvn737s]

20 years of losing money?

Take the total revenues for the past 20 years and compare that to the total expenses over that time period and get back to me will ya?
Get a grip on reality.

Huh? That from a US Our-way-or-the-highway type? You really should have picked the blue pill.

Dont' let the facts get in your way. And HP is a member of the BK club.

Yes, but HP was a Survivor of BK rather than it's most regular resident. And please, can you switch to another cliche' like "When would now be a good time..." or "Regards"

You must be a junior employee, but I would bet you don't work for either carrier and are just a pot stirrer.

And you would lose yet another bet, not a good track record for someone who claims to be a pillar of labor.

I am not interested in stirring anything. I look forward to mutual cooperation to ease the inevitable pain without adding past pain to it. Hardliners like yourself give the appearance that since you couldn't triumph over US Management, you have chosen the employees of HP as your next target. Fueling a fued always backfires since you can't sustain unsubstantiated hatred and prejudice even in the name of self-preservation. The victories of the civil-rights movement proved that.

700UW- the UW can't stand for UN-WILLING to compromise for the greater good.

[post="300328"][/post]​

 

[Whatnow?]

Touched a nerve!

 

[rjh]

our bylaws state DOH...PERIOD!! Any attempt to change that will SINK the new US Airways. I will promise you that. :angry:

[post="299862"][/post]​

I'm not an FA, so whatever is decided wont' really affect me. I also agree that DOH is fair. What DOES affect me is your attitude that any type of compromise would SINK the new company. So--instead of compromising and losing some senioirty, you would rather be out of a job??? Even worse--you have absolutely no problem with putting the jobs of thousands of people at risk as well?? If you "guarantee" that "any attempt to change that will SINK the new US Airways", that's exactly what will happen.

 

[Whatnow?]

One thing you have to remember is that the US folks have been riding this dog and pony show for quite some time now. They have been promised this and that and had it all taken away from them. At one point last year most of the US employees felt enough was enough.....shut it down for the sake of everybody's pride and dignity! The attitudes come accross as harsh and sometimes know it alls, but that's because they been around this block before, and yes they are skeptical....blame them? AWA employees are bringing a fresh new attitude and work ethic, but its viewed on the other side like a deer caught in the headlights of a runaway freight train! There are a lot of egos and challenges yet to overcome but hopefully it will all work out for the better! JMO

 

[rjh]

I do know that the US employees have been through a lot, and I certainly don't blame them for their skepticism. But everyone has to realize compromises will have to be made, on both sides. If people don't accept change, their negative attitudes WILL show to the customers. Employee should fight for what they want, but realize they won't get everything. If they can't find a way to accept the final outcome, then they should leave--especially since a decision on seniority will be made by the union, not by the company. And that's addressed to employees of both airlines.

 

[acmech]

These companies can make all of the promises they want to, and the same goes for the unions. In the end, these promises aren't worth the paper they are written on. Just ask anyone from past poorly merged airlines.

 

[Twicebaked]

Its called binding arbitration. As was the case with AA and TWA. So much for the Allegany-Mohawk provisions too. TWA had them in the contracts, and look at what it got them. Nothing.

[post="299896"][/post]​

An arbitrator will have NOTHING to do or say with the bylaws of the AFA Constitution if DOH prevails. Arbitrators only come into play when two sides CANNOT agree if there are two different unions on the property. It IS in the bylaws that DOH is to be used. Sorry, nothing can be done. If (big IF) it is removed, you can bet the house that AFA will be decertified and they will NEVER have an opportunity to represent any future airlines. AFA may as well shut the doors.