Pilot to pilot squabbles

[twoturnin]

LOL all this is so funny---85 hire--- have been practicing here at home with a basketball---lots of KY on the basketball and ZIP right in she goes---just getting ready for what I know will be coming.

 

[N924PS]

"A U pilot who has been on the property on or before 1983 will probably not go junior to any AWA pilot, save a handful of senior 757 pilots."

I have to disagree with that. The U pilots are the losers. The AWA pilots are the winners. They should prevail. Period. Number 1 U should go to Number 1500 or 1600 AWA (or U West as you like to call it).

The AWA pilots can do your "senior" job with no problems.
It's all been done before.

SAVE DAVE!!

You've smoked one too many pine cones, I fear.

 

[a320av8r]

The only guarantee we have is that this will go to an arbitrator. We will have nothing to do with the integration decision.

"F DAVE !!"

 

[prechilill]

"F DAVE !!"
[/quote]


Some of the USAir pilots are real low-lifes. It shows with the statement above.

Relative seniority and nobody gets screwed.

 

[AIRWOMAN]

The only guarantee we have is that this will go to an arbitrator. We will have nothing to do with the integration decision.

"F DAVE !!"

Just curious........when your most junior pilot, and I am assuming that you are in the pilot group, was about to get it because of BK 1, 2 or any of those other actions that lost jobs, did you say "F _______" (fill in the blank with a name?? :angry:

 

[Bud8EE]

"F DAVE !!"
Some of the USAir pilots are real low-lifes. It shows with the statement above.

Relative seniority and nobody gets screwed.

Relative seniority screws many. It prevents pilots on the U list from benifitting from the attrition due to retirements scheduled at U. If there are pilots U list who were scheduled to be senior A330 Captains before retiring then the intergrations should preserve that, even if they are currently furloughed. It would be a windfall for an AWA pilot to be slotted in a way that gave them access and because of their younger age now blocked the U pilot in perpituity. DOH with the proper fences, conditions, and restrictions will allow both to enjoy it. Considering which airline generated that flying, what do you think is fair?

 

[320driver]

The only guarantee we have is that this will go to an arbitrator. We will have nothing to do with the integration decision.

"F DAVE !!"

You Guys ant US EAst Are a joke throw you a life line and you what the whole FN boat I say F US east You guys are like a cancer.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Relative seniority screws many. It prevents pilots on the U list from benifitting from the attrition due to retirements scheduled at U. If there are pilots U list who were scheduled to be senior A330 Captains before retiring then the intergrations should preserve that, even if they are currently furloughed. It would be a windfall for an AWA pilot to be slotted in a way that gave them access and because of their younger age now blocked the U pilot in perpituity. DOH with the proper fences, conditions, and restrictions will allow both to enjoy it. Considering which airline generated that flying, what do you think is fair?

I do see your point and I agree it would not be right for a U pilot to miss an A330 Captain seat in such a way. You mention DOH with fences, conditions, etc that would prevent that. How about relative seniority with similar fences, restrictions, etc to prevent that? Would that not do the same thing? Just thinking out loud.

 

[prechilill]

Relative seniority screws many. It prevents pilots on the U list from benifitting from the attrition due to retirements scheduled at U. If there are pilots U list who were scheduled to be senior A330 Captains before retiring then the intergrations should preserve that, even if they are currently furloughed. It would be a windfall for an AWA pilot to be slotted in a way that gave them access and because of their younger age now blocked the U pilot in perpituity. DOH with the proper fences, conditions, and restrictions will allow both to enjoy it. Considering which airline generated that flying, what do you think is fair?

That argument works both ways, bud. How about the 150 or so copilots at AWA marked for upgrade right about now that will not do so because of this abortion buy-out of USAir? You are going to have to come up with a better idea.

Relative seniority: fair for all
Relative seniority: good for the pilot group

 

[Bud8EE]

That argument works both ways, bud. How about the 150 or so copilots at AWA marked for upgrade right about now that will not do so because of this abortion buy-out of USAir? You are going to have to come up with a better idea.

Relative seniority: fair for all
Relative seniority: good for the pilot group

For example a condition would be to look at the upgrades projected. You mention a 150, and lets say there were 150 on the U side. Every Captain class in 06 would have to have 1 pilot from the AWA list and one pilot from the U list. That condition would also be for downgrading in case of a RIF to prevent the more junior(DOH) AWA pilots from being disadvantaged if there was backwards movement. You could run that condition out per aircraft type for the next 10 years and place a fence around bases if necessary.

If you went with relative seniority it could work as long as a fence on all Group 1 flying A330/767/757 flying for PHL and CLT till the last pilot on the U list retires in 2034(most junior furloughed). If I were an AWA pilot I know which I would prefer. Both would do the same thing but the AWA pilots would enjoy the preferred U flying erlier with DOH and reasonable conditions and restrictions and the seniority list wouldn't become an abortion.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Just curious........when your most junior pilot, and I am assuming that you are in the pilot group, was about to get it because of BK 1, 2 or any of those other actions that lost jobs, did you say "F _______" (fill in the blank with a name?? :angry:

I'm not sure if that was in jest, but just in case.....

To paraphrase one prolific poster's words as example, it usually went something like "Do we like it? Of course not, but _________." You can fill in the blank with any of:

"the company will liquidate otherwise"

"we've got to live to fight another day"

"we have no leverage"

"all the expert advisors say we have to"

"we've got to save the company"

"look at the 'soft landing' we've provided" (MDA & J4J)

The end result has variously been described as "ALPA eats their young" or "ALPA throws the junior under the bus".

You've got to remember the kind of dysfunctional group you're dealing with on this side. Way to many seem to care little as long as most of the pain affects someone else, lead by those whose primary goal is to make sure blame for anything bad is placed on others so they can keep their cushy ALPA position.

Jim

 

[prechilill]

If you went with relative seniority it could work as long as a fence on all Group 1 flying A330/767/757 flying for PHL and CLT till the last pilot on the U list retires in 2034(most junior furloughed). If I were an AWA pilot I know which I would prefer. Both would do the same thing but the AWA pilots would enjoy the preferred U flying erlier with DOH and reasonable conditions and restrictions and the seniority list wouldn't become an abortion.
[/quote]

I, and probably 90% of my comrades in my position would agree with your solution. Of course, these are simply opinions posted on this board and the arbitrator will have the final say. I respect your ideas.

 

[PA18]

Just curious........when your most junior pilot, and I am assuming that you are in the pilot group, was about to get it because of BK 1, 2 or any of those other actions that lost jobs, did you say "F _______" (fill in the blank with a name?? :angry:

Yes, they did.

Time and time again.

Which is why they are in the situation they are in.

And which is also why Jerry Glass is negotiating for the company on the joint contract. Like taking candy from a baby...

 

[A320 Driver]

Wish the newbies would pick more original names. Now I get lumped in with angry pilots from East AND West.

Why don't you people give it a rest. Seniority issues will NOT be decided on this forum. All these posts do is drive a deeper wedge between the two pilot groups. We have enough on our plates without fighting each other.

A320 Driver B)