senority rules for all employees

[hp_fa]

I suggested that you read the words of Doug Parker:

"We raised a lot of capital by doing this deal, and that's put us in a very solid place financially."

"Without the merger, neither of the former airlines would be where we are today."

After the synergies of the merger are complete it's conceivable that you could be flying an Airbus 350 to an international destination.

Sounds as if you are the clueless one in this dialogue.

U would have been in Chapter 7 and closed down in an asset sale. HP, at worst, would have been reorganized and not liquidated. Frankly I doubt there would have been anything approaching a near-term reorganization because HP was generating profits. U was not generating anything but losses.

You also need to remember that the average HP employee was perfectly happy doing what it is we did. We didn't have any huge desire to fly to Europe or all of the Carribean. We were happy in our niche. We flew happy, and the cabin crews generally got along well with both crew members and the other frontline employees.

The culture change that is occurring is not, IMO, welcome in the West.

 

[JMM]

I think HP_FA brings up some valid points. However, there does need to be a conslidation in the US aviation industry. If available seat miles decreases, prices will increase and airlines will be profitable, even the CEO of WN admits this (of course, in the next sentence adds a bunch of flights out of DEN). All the while we have another airline that wants to start and dump more seats on the market (Virgin America). I think the shakeout in the industry is far from over and I think we will see a shut down and/or merger of yet more legacy carriers before this is done.

 

[N924PS]

The culture change that is occurring is not, IMO, welcome in the West.

There really has been little culture transfer in the merger up to this point. What there has been is weighted in favor of HP's style of business from Mr. Parker's lead.

What you are afraid of is not really a culture change, but as I recall from your previous posts, is a change in your seniority. Since the AFA voted overwhelmingly in favor of Date of Hire integration of the F/As, you could be adversely affected.

I know several U-East employees that will be bidding PHX or LAS when it is open to them. This includes all crafts from Pilots, F/A's, Customer Service, AMT's etc. But in reality, a handful of people in the big picture. And most of them will be retiring in only a few years.

 

[AIRWOMAN]

curious now as to how someone who has opined already to be non union is now speaking for IBT?

from IBT contract:

Curious as to what??
Currently non union. Currently being the key word here. I am not speaking FOR the IBT. I am stating what has been openly stated BY the IBT.

 

[luvn737s]

No doubt more mergers are on the horizon. I believe even Doug has said so. What if the next merger is with an even more senior group? Or a much junior group? WE have to figure out a way make it work so the least amount of pain is shared. Does that make sense?

During the previous mergers, AFA always went by DOH and it seems to be the least disruptive, least acrimonious system.

There is very little likelyhood in meging with a more senior group than US, you must admit that. Now a more junior workforce, is a real possibility. In that case, those employees should be able to retain the benefits of choosing the airline they chose to go to work for, and should be restricted from additional benefits at the expense of others (i.e. fences).

I think a fair way is to mitigate the pain rather than spreading it out among the innocent. The only thing worse than committing to doing something because it's always been done that way is to resolve to always do it that way in the future. The HP/US merger is a merger between two very different seniority levels and deserves a very different solution. One risks losing the status quo and the other risks losing their career.

 

[USstew23]

There is very little likelyhood in meging with a more senior group than US, you must admit that. Now a more junior workforce, is a real possibility. In that case, those employees should be able to retain the benefits of choosing the airline they chose to go to work for, and should be restricted from additional benefits at the expense of others (i.e. fences).

I think a fair way is to mitigate the pain rather than spreading it out among the innocent. The only thing worse than committing to doing something because it's always been done that way is to resolve to always do it that way in the future. The HP/US merger is a merger between two very different seniority levels and deserves a very different solution. One risks losing the status quo and the other risks losing their career.

I feel your pain with the seniority issue, however if that is the problem then maybe voting in a union with a different merger policy should've been done previously.

 

[320driver]

I feel your pain with the seniority issue, however if that is the problem then maybe voting in a union with a different merger policy should've been done previously.

You know you sound like a freakin moroon with that reply. You my friend are a total tool(loser)

 

[Seatacus]

U would have been in Chapter 7 and closed down in an asset sale. HP, at worst, would have been reorganized and not liquidated.

This is pure conjecture.........unless your crystal ball is working better than others.

 

[LCC_#1]

The culture change that is occurring is not, IMO, welcome in the West.

To the contrary, we ARE becoming the formal AWA. Please tell me, what changes has the company made culturely that have come from the old US Airways? Name? That isn't cultural. Senority? That isn't cultural. Communications? That IS cultural, but has come from Doug...remember him, the CEO? Inflight changes? Policy and procedures? Not cultural but 100% of East changes came from the West.

So please, hp_fa, list those culture changes that you see are not welcomed because your tone seems to suggest that the East culture is rubbing the stinch of despair and failure across the fruited plain to Tempe.

 

[USstew23]

You know you sound like a freakin moroon with that reply. You my friend are a total tool(loser)

Actually you are the one who is making themselves out to be a tool. I'm finished with this topic, I know that the majority of the rank and file is nowhere near as ignorant. You have no idea how many friends that I have at West and the amount of support that I give them. Not one East person (besides our inept senior management) was the cause of our near failure, actually we probably made it as long as we did because of the employees. The funny thing is, in the grand scheme of things I am still going to be pretty junior even after this integration. I know that we all have different views and opinions and that is what makes this crazy world spin, but for you to start up with the name calling and rude comments is uncalled for. Its funny, I have a relative who flies Left seat for West and of course he has his opinions too but at no time has he ever tried to bring anyone else down or bash anyone just to make his point. He'll be the first to acknowledge the fact that HP was headed down the road to Ch.7 until around the time Parker took over, did you forget the late 90's? Just because that was happening does not give any of us the right to bash the employees of AWA for something that they could not help. The AWA employees that I have met seem to be the nicest most laid back group of people that I have ever met and I have all of the respect in the world for them, we all might have an ounce of respect and compassion for you if you would stop bashing us.

 

[sharkstooth]

I wish that Doug Parker would have never had that lunch date with Dave Siegel several years back.

I don't know of any USAirways east entity that thinks they should give up DOH to save A&W either.

In fact, I have no idea why all respective unions have not pushed to see how much the respective management groups really want this merger. I mean, it is their deal. Why should we allow them to set the terms before the unions even talk. Shouldn't they be a part of the integration? If they f*cked it up, make them pay.... It may be all you get from this bunch of ______.

While reserving judgement, I am tending to think they are incompetant, for the most part.

 

[AIRCRAFTMECHANIC]

You know you sound like a freakin moroon with that reply. You my friend are a total tool(loser)

you obiously dont have the candor or judgment to be flying.
A real man wouldnt be bashing a woman. I'll bet your divorced or soon will be. If we saw a picture of you Im sure
your the looser.
You started bashing me telling me I was sniffing hydro fluid.

Man to little man.Show some respect to the ladys.


On this interenet your a real tough little man,,,bashing the ladys. You calling her a moron shows you have no buisness being in charge of a aircraft.All you haver done
is bash people. While you think your safe... behind your computer screen.
I always thought of pilots in commmand as having good judgement...Im sure if human resourses sees how you act than maybe you wouldnt be flying anymore...

Ever heard of sexual discrimination.

Im sure this will make you mad....but someone needed to stand up to your bashing the ladys....She has a opinion
let her state it...with out loosing your cool...in doing so you are doing a diservice to your fellow pilots.

 

[luvn737s]

Dude, you're on a computer, remember?

 

[Expectorant]

Ladys and gentleman

The Ibt proposes to fence the west employees , to protect them from the more senior usair mechanics.This is unfair.

We as Usair have been brought together from many different airlines, depending on how far you go back.Senority has always been the rule to live or die by.It is how we are boarded while flying non rev , how we choose our days off , the shift we work and wether we will be layed off as I was in 95.Sometimes it works for us and sometimes against.But one thing for sure it is always fair.A person knows where he or she stands.

When a more senior employee gets boarded first or gets a better shift, we graciously understand. Its how things are done and always have been done, and rightfully so.

Now with the co merging with a less senior airline the notion is presented that this is a unfair practice.Well
I will remind you all that Usair group owns us, not AWA group.I understand the situation and sympathize with the junior employees, but rest assured we have all been junior at one time and many of us have suffered along the way because of it.

....

I have never read anything on this board as true and sensible as your statements. The most true and accurate thing is that, YES, ONCE all of us were Junior Employees, and worked and worked, and eventually we earned seniority and fully accepted and understood the process. It IS the only fair way. I am a retired 24-year Res Agent who started with PSA in San Diego. My pension as a retired employee is $184 a month. I could not afford to maintain the insurance coverage the way the company wanted me to, so I had to get another job and start all over again with seniority. But I at least have insurance thru another company now, but thought I'd always have my boarding seniority for flying. Not so. Another kick in the pants. Res is HARD work; trying to represent a company in a positive way by answering 200 plus calls a day; I gave 24 years of my life and never, EVER thought I'd end up this way. Seniority is IT in this business. I am not bitter about the pension (although I should be), but I am bitter about the boarding changes, which is the ultimate kick in the pants. I worked so hard, for so many years, and now feel it was so stupid for me to stay, but I had faith and trust in the leadership. The truth I guess is that nobody cares about you when your employment is concerned. You're used, and then tossed out. My last day in RES was a "well, good luck, can I have your headset and ID badge back?" I walked out of the building alone and empty-handed. But I'm over that. I just want my boarding priority back, and not have to move to the back of the bus because I'm retired. I have to get home to get back to work too, just like the "active" employees.

**Moderator Note: Please refrain from quoting a lengthy post. It just makes it easier for everyone to read follow-on posts. Thank you.**

 

[PhxMama]

Us east has boarded by seniority and west hasnt. You say thats the way its always been done. Well, not on the west side. No disrespect here as I dont know how you worked in rez for so many years. It is hard work. West side used to get flexi passes(buddy passes-max 40 per year based on attendance) to use for upgrade and parent fees. We've lost that. Our retirees have always boarded one level lower and thats what we have always known. No one will be completely happy. I hope your new employer is treating you well and you like your new job. Regards.