Seniority Challenge Greets Us/hp Merger

[AC AA LA FA]

....finally...some relief from AA/TW senority..
different ruels this time, still a touchy subject...
see how it all plays out..
good luck to all new USf/as

 

[Bear96]

Who gives a sh** about PHX! We are all happy where we are at! We don't want to come to PHX to fly SWA types of flights....we have Carribean, Latin America, Europe, and ANY kind of Domestic trip we could want being based on the East Coast! Besides your long haul flights out of PHX are to the East Coast.....BFD.......we'd rather have our long haul flights to the West Coast! Stop worrying about your precious PHX, we don't care about it!

[post="303461"][/post]​

I think you are missing the point. From what I can tell, the junior HP F/As aren't worried about the base bumping as much as they are about being FURLOUGH FODDER. As a result of DOH, they will be at much greater risk of being furloughed than they would be if there were no merger or if a system other than DOH were being used.

As to acquiring vs. merging and who is the "surviving carrer" and who needs whom more, etc. You can go round and round with that one. But I think it is better to put it in terms of a simple question: If there were no merger / acquision / whatever, a year from now, who is more likely to still be employed by the airline they are employed by now: HP or U? IOW, Which airline is more likely to be around?

 

[proudf/a]

Here is what I would like to know. I am a 15 year FA with a bid position around 1150, which is lower middle senority at HP. This senority allows me to hold weekends off and fly failry decient 2,3, & 4 day trips. Where would this fit in relative to USA FA's based in PHL,CLT or PIT. So if someone at USA could provide information regarding this it would help a lot.

Most of the FA's at AWA are afraid of our lives being disrupted. I moved all a round the HP system during the bankruptcy and do not want to move again, and do not want my quality of life to change. All the uncertainty creates fear and fear is a strong emotion and paralizing one. All of us are afraid of change in one way or another. What we need is information as what the combined senority list looks like and how all of us fit into the list before we mount the big fight.

As for DOH I am still on the fence. I really don't want to loose my senority because we are merging companies. For me it is a sense of pride in AWA. Those of us 15+ years in senority built AWA from the ground up and helped it survive bancruptcy, with all of us loosing a lot of money because we had to by stock in AWA when we started. So to me we should not be "stapled to the bottom"of any senority list no matter who or what union they are. I should be slotted in the senority list that is equtable to our terms of service. On the other side of the fence, we voted in AFA and know what the bylaws and constitution state on the merger of 2 AFA carriers. Which means we go by DOH. Which most likely keep the majority of the workforce happy and be a benefit to the new USA.

On item I forgot to mention above as to what has caused the fear to grow at AWA is that some of our crews have encountered current USA crews that have stated the they cannot way to move to PHX and bump AWA fa's. Of course this most likey does not accuratly represent USA but you know it only takes one comment to start the jumpseat wireless going in the wrong direction.

If someone from USA could respond back as to what my senority group could hold I would appreciate it. We all have a new beginning to make this company the best in the industry. With NWA and DL in bankruptcy and possible shrinking it could help the new USA to become the 3rd or 4th largest airline. All of us need to focus on working together and providing the best customer service to keep all our current customers and bring in and keep new ones. Remember with out the customer we don't have jobs... WELCOME TO ALL MY NEW COWORKERS!!!! I look forward to meeting and flying with all of you....

[post="304281"][/post]​

Let me answer your questions for you and put your fears to rest. I have 18 yrs with US. In PIT 15 yrs would sit you on reserve. In CLT, you would also be on reserve. In PHL, 15 yrs is much better, you could even hold some International and Caribbean flying. If you switch gears and look to BOS/LGA/DCA 15 yrs is golden in those bases.

DOH is a scarey thought considering we have over 5000 active f/a's on the property. Yes, we have many over 30 yrs, but seriously how long do you think they are going to continue flying? They are thinning out rather quickly, most of them have NO desire to work much past another 5-10 yrs. You stated you do not wish to be stapled to the bottom of anyone seniority list, and should be slotted in the senority list that is equitable to our terms of service. Don't you feel we deserve the same? It really isnt going to be an issue. The DOH bylaw can be challenged, but it will prevail. It is the only FAIR solution. As far as US f/a's transferring to PHX and bumping, if there are no open positions available for transfers (once the fence is lifted), NO one whether it be a HP or US f/a can transfer. Just like HP f/a's cannot transfer to PHL with the hopes of flying international. From the US f/a's that I have talked to, I think the f/a's based in LAS have more to be concerned with then PHX! We still have a few f/a's that commute from Southern California to PHL, would they like a shorter commute? Probably, but are they willing to give up Rome, Paris, Venice, Munich, Madrid, Amsterdam, Manchester, Barcelona, Shannon, Dublin, Glasgow, London, or Frankfurt to fly to trips that fly out of the PHX base? What do you think? I think NOT.

As far as US f/a's saying they can't wait to come to PHX to bump out all of you. Alot of that is rumor mill just like we think all of you are wanting to "staple" a 30 yr f/a to the bottom of your seniority list. I do not believe that is the majority of thinking over there. I think it is a small few that are VERY jr, that are in fear of losing their jobs, once all these airplanes are parked and the dust settles. My words to them: Welcome to the very unstable world of the airline industry. As you mentioned with the NW and DL filings. This may not be the end of merging airlines, so it is in the best interest of everyone to protect the DOH...look at the yrs UAL/AA/NW/DL have been around. HP f/a's need to keep that in mind. Some of those airlines seniority far excedes ours.

I also agree, we can make this a match made in heaven. We are all here because of the love of the job. I can honestly tell you the f/a's at US are very professional, we are ready to merge this airline, turn the page to get on with business. We do look forward to welcoming our new coworkers.

 

[proudf/a]

I think you are missing the point. From what I can tell, the junior HP F/As aren't worried about the base bumping as much as they are about being FURLOUGH FODDER. As a result of DOH, they will be at much greater risk of being furloughed than they would be if there were no merger or if a system other than DOH were being used.

As to acquiring vs. merging and who is the "surviving carrer" and who needs whom more, etc. You can go round and round with that one. But I think it is better to put it in terms of a simple question: If there were no merger / acquision / whatever, a year from now, who is more likely to still be employed by the airline they are employed by now: HP or U? IOW, Which airline is more likely to be around?

[post="304305"][/post]​

Which airline is more likey to be around? AWA didnt have what it takes to survive and play with the big boys. That is why, they are merging with one that does. (meaning stronger markets/bigger planes/etc) US had what it takes to play with the big boys, but circumstances over the past 4 yrs toppled with very poor mangement, left them very vulnerable. Even Doug Parker has admitted to the fact the without this merger, neither airline stood a good chance of survival...so lets nail the coffin shut on this topic, and realize we are in this together and can be a major player in this battle for survival, and together we can come out on top!

 

[UseYourHead]

Well said,

People...we should really begin to focus on our future, TOGETHER. I know this is an emotional event; having been through 4 mergers (now going on 5) trust me when I tell you that you are going to drive yourself insane working yourself up over things you have no control over. (Seniority integration is going to happen according to each unions rules, period).

Focus on the positive and the bright future ahead.

"we are in this together and can be a major player in this battle for survival, and together we can come out on top!"

[post="304312"][/post]​

 

[Bear96]

Which airline is more likey to be around? AWA didnt have what it takes to survive and play with the big boys. That is why, they are merging with one that does. (meaning stronger markets/bigger planes/etc) US had what it takes to play with the big boys, but circumstances over the past 4 yrs toppled with very poor mangement, left them very vulnerable. Even Doug Parker has admitted to the fact the without this merger, neither airline stood a good chance of survival...so lets nail the coffin shut on this topic, and realize we are in this together and can be a major player in this battle for survival, and together we can come out on top!

[post="304312"][/post]​

I think you are totally ignoring the fact that, more than likely, U WOULD ALREADY HAVE SHUT ITS DOORS by now had the "transaction" not occurred, while HP would still have posted a profit this quarter and made plans to hire more F/As.

But, if you have already made up your mind that HP was in as precarious a condition as U despite all the facts to the contrary, obviously I can't stop you from clinging to that notion.

 

[hulagirl]

multitasker,
I work for AWA, but can tell you that with DOH your 15 years will land you with 15 years seniority on the global list. This is why DOH is the only fair way to integrate. Everyone is as senior as they are. It isn't fair for ANY flight attendant to "get" seniority that they have not earned/accrued.
As for the integrated list, the reason that it hasn't been published is (I am told) because the USAirways flight attendant list is still changing with various early-outs, retirements, voluntary furlough's, etc. It really doesn't matter, though, because as the AFA has told us, there will be no flush and bump. Yes, there will be flight attendants that are senior to even our most senior f/a, but it is most likely to be a "trickle" effect as opposed to a "flood".
Also consider that many of our flight attendants are looking to transfer OUT of PHX, which can create a vacancy in PHX. It will all work itself out, and with your seniority, you have nothing to fear with this merger. Just opportunity.

 

[proudf/a]

I think you are totally ignoring the fact that, more than likely, U WOULD ALREADY HAVE SHUT ITS DOORS by now had the "transaction" not occurred, while HP would still have posted a profit this quarter and made plans to hire more F/As.

But, if you have already made up your mind that HP was in as precarious a condition as U despite all the facts to the contrary, obviously I can't stop you from clinging to that notion.

[post="304350"][/post]​

I do believe the only reason HP avoid filing bankruptcy a few yrs back was because of the secured loan they received from the gov't. Its not been a bed of roses for your balance sheet there either. Since HP's expenses were not nearly as great as US, (payroll/leases/gate space/etc etc) as ours, being we are a MUCH larger carrier. We were not able to structure costs without the bankrupcty protection. US is a fighting airline. We have fought our way back from the brink of death more times than you realize. We will do it again. If you believe that HP could make it as a stand alone carrier, then there is no reason to continue this despite facts to the contrary, obviously I cannot stop you from clinging to your notions. Lets just bottom line this....USAIRWAYS IS MOVING IN, so move over, and move on.

 

[multitasker]

Proudf/a: Thanks for your detailed response. It is the information I wanted to know. I was on RSV for 6 years so going back to RSV will be a big adjustment if it happens. Not that I am going to worry about.

FA's at USA also deserve the same when it comes to senority intergration. This was why I was contemplating the slotting meathod of intergration. Both AWA and USA MEC's could hammer out a plan that is fair and equitable to both work groups. Again the senority fear is very real to the junior/reserve FA's at AWA. The reserve FA's are leaving the company at an increased rate,which causes us concern. Most of our reserves are afraid that the furlough FA's at USA are comming back and bumping them out of jobs. Even if this is not true it is a perceived fear and it is a concern for them. No matter how you look at it someone is going to get the short end of the rope.

Honestly, as a shareholder in AWA, I think AWA could have remaind a stand alone carrier. Yes, AWA received and ATSB loan but so did USA. AWA was paying back the loan at the time of the merger. Doug and his group along with the employees of AWA work hard at keeping AWA around. Yes, their would be challenges along the way but we would survive.

Change is always difficult to handle. When you add the different forces to the mix it creates even more fear. I always believe that you can only 1 person and that is yourself. The unions and corporate america only watch out for themsevlves and what will bring them more money.

We all have many opinions and ideas of how this whole merger is going to play out. I am just sad to see my companys name disappear that I have work so hard to keep. Not that USA FA's did not do the same when their respective carriers disappeard. It's like loosing a family member. I guess we have to grieve and bury the dead and move on.

Thanks again Proudf/a. I look forward to meeting you and moving forward with our new company...

 

[Bear96]

Its not been a bed of roses for your balance sheet there either.

[post="304359"][/post]​

I am not associated with HP, or with any other airline. I am just a neutral observer with no dog in this fight, although as an ex-AFA member I understand some of the underlying issues more than just a member of the travelling public.

And my neutral conclusion is that: (1) the "transaction" literally saved U's life, not HP's, which had some time to figure out how to face the challenges ahead; (2) the seniority integration will be by DoH; (3) the HP F/As will get screwed by that; and (4) their concerns are justified.

 

[proudf/a]

I am not associated with HP, or with any other airline. I am just a neutral observer with no dog in this fight, although as an ex-AFA member I understand some of the underlying issues more than just a member of the travelling public.

And my neutral conclusion is that: (1) the "transaction" literally saved U's life, not HP's, which had some time to figure out how to face the challenges ahead; (2) the seniority integration will be by DoH; (3) the HP F/As will get screwed by that; and (4) their concerns are justified.

[post="304379"][/post]​

Not being associated with any airline, I assume you mean you do not work in this industry? Let me enlighten you on how this industry operates. It is solely a seniority rules outfit. Every airline since the beginning of time operates based on your date of hire. Unfortuneatly when you have carriers merging with other carriers there is always ppl that get screwed. US purchased PSA and Piedmont airlines as well as the Trump Shuttle, and want to talk about f/a's getting screwed? The US f/a's took the high road and embraced the incoming f/a's into the seniority list based on DOH, and smiled while they did. They showed everyone that 4 airlines can come together as 1. I really dont believe this merger solely saved US, HP needed this too. I have no desire to get into a pissing match with you over the yeahs and nays concerning this issue...as I have stated before. We are all faced with this, it is what is, we can work together to make this a great airline, or turn it into a 3 ring circus. I as well as my coworkers will once again take the high road, and embrace the HP f/a's into the DOH ranks be wherever they may fall.

 

[hulagirl]

I am not associated with HP, or with any other airline. I am just a neutral observer with no dog in this fight, although as an ex-AFA member I understand some of the underlying issues more than just a member of the travelling public.

And my neutral conclusion is that: (1) the "transaction" literally saved U's life, not HP's, which had some time to figure out how to face the challenges ahead; (2) the seniority integration will be by DoH; (3) the HP F/As will get screwed by that; and (4) their concerns are justified.

[post="304379"][/post]​

As an AWA flight attendant, I dont feel that I am going to get "screwed" by DOH. I certainly would have difficulty "screwing" someone else who is senior to me by "taking" a seniority number that is NOT MINE. Many times in life one must do what is RIGHT, and be satisfied because they have played by the rules and done the RIGHT thing.
This "transaction" not only saved USAirways, it also saved America West. Time will reveal that, Doug Parker has said it repeatedly, and it is a fact.
The concerns by AWA flight attendants who are fighting DOH is the ultimate in irony: the very people that fear it are the ones with the highest turnover rate and thus are the ones that will create the vacancies in PHX.
Why are you stirring a hot pot?

 

[proudf/a]

As an AWA flight attendant, I dont feel that I am going to get "screwed" by DOH. I certainly would have difficulty "screwing" someone else who is senior to me by "taking" a seniority number that is NOT MINE. Many times in life one must do what is RIGHT, and be satisfied because they have played by the rules and done the RIGHT thing.
This "transaction" not only saved USAirways, it also saved America West. Time will reveal that, Doug Parker has said it repeatedly, and it is a fact.
The concerns by AWA flight attendants who are fighting DOH is the ultimate in irony: the very people that fear it are the ones with the highest turnover rate and thus are the ones that will create the vacancies in PHX.
Why are you stirring a hot pot?

[post="304385"][/post]​

Thank YOU hulagirl....DOH will prevail regardless...no one is going to come in and knock anyone out of your bases. If anything I would think that HP f/a's would love to try their hands at some International flying that US has enjoyed for yrs. We have 30hr layovers in Europe! One leg over 30hrs one leg back. Come on over, the party is just starting!

 

[multitasker]

Proudf/a, just wait till AWA skd gets a hold of those trips, you will be lucky if it is a 20hr layover. You only get the 30 hrs in ELP.

 

[proudf/a]

Proudf/a, just wait till AWA skd gets a hold of those trips, you will be lucky if it is a 20hr layover. You only get the 30 hrs in ELP.

[post="304390"][/post]​

Well honey, wait til those schedulers have to deal with the 35yr seniority of a PITBULL <laughing> Actually our International rules were negoiated in our contract, so since HP doesnt have an International flying section in their contract, ours should roll over. Layover time is portioned in that. Hopefully there wont be much changes in that.