A WINDFALL HAS TAKEN PLACE.

[Piedmont1984]

[

Furloughed does not mean unemployed.

Parker fell into this merger, since then West mangagment has screwed up operations just as well if not better than the old East management.

And I don't know about you AWA320, but my "career expectation" was always to become an airline captain, now I are one, and I won't lose that as a result of the award.

You will become one. But several hundred of our F/O's can no longer expect the same. They will run out of time. Their upgrade opportunity was handed over to AWA pilots by Nicolau.

 

[AWA320]

Pay and benefits!! Getting into the whole seniority case again is not necessary. Just so you know we on the west don't view this as a win, we view it as relieved. We are glad that we did not get further hosed in this merger. I'll leave it at that.

Now for the record, my comment on gas and matches is in response to the east altimatiums of give us or else!! Now really what kind of response were you expecting??

 

[michael707767]

Furloughed does not mean unemployed.

hate to tell you, but furloughed is unemployed. While you were furloughed, was USAir paying you? Did you file for and receive unemployment benefits from the goverment when you were furloughed?

Furloughed is unemployed with the right to be first in line when the company starts to hire again.

 

[AWA320]

The fact of the matter AWA320 is that if it wasn't for all the concessions that the east took you at America West would have gone into bankruptcy, and if you believe anything different than I suggest that US drug tests you because that would be the only reason you spout your garbage. We in the East blame our management for all the cuts we took but I blame that punk drunk Doogie for what went down. Behind the curtain he was controling the concessionary talks and if he didn't get what he wanted the merger would not have taken place and you would be getting it shoved up yours. It is scarry that we have someone behind the controls of an aircraft that has a mindset like yours. You should be controling a Tonka Toy and not a multimillion dollar aircraft. It is bad enough that the pilots made mistakes in their concessionary contracts but for you to throw fuel to the fire just shows the lack of maturity that you have. Grow up and stay away from the koolaid! Have a beautiful day!

PS I'll bet you were in diapers when most of us started with the company! Or maybe you were just a tadpole!

Stormchaser,

Is it your statement than that when you signed LOA 93 that the management in the west was behind that?? If so then it's you who needs drug testing. Your management slid you the pole not the west or our pilots!! As stated many many times before AAA was the second choice not the first, but you people seem to always forget that. We were making money so unless someone lied to the share holders of AWA I challenge any of you to produce otherwise. Please do come at me with some farse zanzibar project because that's just plain horse dung!! We posted the highest profit in AWA history just months before the merger announcement so this so called project is bull. Now could we have competed with AA, DAL and the likes without the merger?? NO Would AAA even be around today without the merger?? NO so we can move on with that subject.

Now as for your insults, I'll let that go too as it has become the norm with you east people. Don't recall insulting you but hey, whatever floats your boat right??

We are also getting real tired of the age and diapers cracks as well, I was born in the early 60's so you can save the bull for someone who really cares about that arguement.

You have a good weekend as well!!

 

[AWA320]

[

Furloughed does not mean unemployed.

Ok are they collecting a check from the company for services rendered? Do they have an ID in their possession that says USAirways CREW on it?? Were they operating any equipment for the company(mainline) at the time of this merger?? If any of this is answered in the affirmative then I stand corrected however if they are not working for this company then they are unemployed here period...

Parker fell into this merger, since then West mangagment has screwed up operations just as well if not better than the old East management.

Unable to argue that point hwever I do know that the operational problems can be fixed if the management comes up off the dollar!! People want to be paid plain and simple and if Parker and Kirby want better production they need to pay people!!

And I don't know about you AWA320, but my "career expectation" was always to become an airline captain, now I are one, and I won't lose that as a result of the award.

I want that as well and now I have to wait several more years than I would have otherwise! So like I said before if I have to be stuck in the right seat longer then I want to be paid better to do it!!

You will become one. But several hundred of our F/O's can no longer expect the same. They will run out of time. Their upgrade opportunity was handed over to AWA pilots by Nicolau.

Not anytime in the near furture that much is for damn sure!! So pay me like I work for AA to sit stuck in the right seat several more years...

......

 

[Piedmont1984]

hate to tell you, but furloughed is unemployed. While you were furloughed, was USAir paying you? Did you file for and receive unemployment benefits from the goverment when you were furloughed?

Furloughed is unemployed with the right to be first in line when the company starts to hire again.

Hate to correct you but someone unemployed is not working at all. While someone furloughed from USAirways may very well be working.


Anyway...the bottom line is this.

 

[AWA320]

Hate to correct you but someone unemployed is not working at all. While someone furloughed from USAirways may very well be working.
Anyway...the bottom line is this.

Ok Piedmont, that's spliting hairs!!!
I think the general jest here is that they are unemployed from mainline USAirways.

Understood the bottom line

 

[Piedmont1984]

Ok Piedmont, that's spliting hairs!!!
I think the general jest here is that they are unemployed from mainline USAirways.

Understood the bottom line

I think you meant gist.....while I meant to jest. More splitting.

 

[A320 Driver]

We keep hearing that same old song sung by the east that a windfall has happened in the west so lets take a look at the situation and see if we can find one.

Always start at the top.

The top 517 EAST pilots that's roughly 10% receive DOH integration!! Windfall EAST

All of the widebody flying goes to the EAST for the next 4 years. This means that NO WEST pilots can occupy those slots. Windfall EAST

A320 Driver:
The junior A330 Captain is seniority number 818(on the East list). Those 517 slots are assigned by name and retire with the pilot. Age 60 rule falls, there are no fences on widebody flying. If the operations were combined today, a West pilot could bid widebody flying immediately should none of the 517 bid it.

Recalling of EAST furloughed pilots 300 of them, while we were hiring 30 a month that stopped the day the merger was announced. Windfall EAST.

A320 Driver:
How do you call the recall of a seniority listed pilot, some with 15 years, a windfall, ESPECIALLY when they are brought back ILO a NEW HIRE. Guess you agree with Nicolao the furloughed pilots have NO VALUE.

The east was furloughed up to 33% of it's active pilot force with no real hope or plan for the furture. Along comes this merger and now they have new life. Windfall EAST

A320 Driver:
That's debatable, and in light of recent comments by Parker and Kirby, incorrect.

The west pilots are paid better than our east counterparts with the exception of widbody pay. The day a contract is signed their pay goes up and avg of 25% HUGE WINDFALL EAST!

A320 Driver:
My pay was cut 43% of my W2 earnings after 911. Now I stand to get 16% back. I had 35 days vacation, you get 28. I paid $36 a month for health care, now it's nearly $500. Some windfall.

The ingegration has done little to aid the west pilots. If you were senior on the east you are senior on the new list and if you were jr on the east you are jr on the new list. NO ADVANTAGE TO THE WEST.

A320 Driver:
Since the West group is younger, they will enjoy the attrition brought on by East retirements all over the list.

The EAST would have all believe that there was a real chance for success of their company outside of this merger. Well not some but all indications pointed otherwise. They would have us believe that they brought lots of attrition when in reality they had no real hope of even surviving so any attrition that is brought is a result of being merged with the stronger company AWA. Lets face it, the truth USAir had no plan and no money outside of a small loan from Air Wisconsin.

A320 Driver:
This plan was hatched so there was no need to seek another "plan". USAirways management was very inventive at getting new cash and financing.


Now we really need to look at that loan from AWAC and why they gave USAir a loan. They did it because they knew that a merger was looming and they had a bit of an inside track.

A320 Driver:
I didn't know you were part of their brain trust.


So where is this windfall that the west got?? I'll tell you, it doesn't exist!! The truth of the matter is the east leadership misled their pilot group into believing that a DOH was a viable option. They told their pilots that all would be captains at the west's expense and now that this hasn't happened they are looking for blood.

A320 Driver:
Partially true. The MEC and a group of pilots forced the DOH/LOS proposal even though the Merger Committee and the advisors told them it was a crapshoot. Only the simple minded would believe they could get the left seat by pushing the West aside.


The west pilot group is now charged with giving all strong leadership simply because the east leaders have failed to lead. We will lead you!! We will lead all to the promise land of pay and benefits.

A320 Driver:
You were not bottom of scale...we probably were, but you were darn close. The land of milk and honey is a matter of personal perspective. Guess you have your sights set pretty low.

A320 Driver B)

 

[AWA320]

I think you meant gist.....while I meant to jest. More splitting.

I'm not even going to lie, I am awful at spelling

 

[Piedmont1984]

If ALPA merger policy still used the words "date of hire", and if this merger went DOH with conditions and restrictions that protect position, job, etc, - I don't think this divide would exist between the two pilot groups.

DOH is fair, equitable and easily quantifiable. What we have in merger policy language now is smoke and mirrors.

If ALPA merger policy still used the words "date of hire", and if this merger went DOH with conditions and restrictions that protect position, job, etc, - I don't think this divide would exist between the two pilot groups.

DOH is fair, equitable and easily quantifiable. What we have in merger policy language now is smoke and mirrors.

Anyway, its low tide, time for a run on the beach.

 

[AWA320]

A320 Driver:
You were not bottom of scale...we probably were, but you were darn close. The land of milk and honey is a matter of personal perspective. Guess you have your sights set pretty low.

A320 Driver B)

That is just far too much for me to attempt to requote on a Sat!

So questions instead. Was AAA furloughed up to 33% or more or not???

Pilot value, Hmmm that's a loaded question or in your case a loaded statement. When a person is furloughed they are no longer employed by that company. They, by the company standards only cease to have any value. Now the real question becomes how do you place this person if they return to their former company. Well simple, they go right back to the bottom. Now in a perfect world AAA would have recovered and said pilots would have returned to their jobs but they would have returned to the bottom of the list right???

The furloghees did not return to the same company, they returned to a new merged company. Now since one party in this merger was not furloughed at all it made no sense what so ever to place an unemployed former employee no matter how long he used to work for the company ahead if one who was already working and brought his job to the new company!!

Now as for pay and benefits, don't get me wrong in this as we on the west are paid poorly by pre 9/11 standards and that is still true. Yes you did take some huge concessions but remember you didn't do that for the west, you did it in an attempt to save job and old company. Old company in spite of all the cuts was still failing and everyone had good reason to believe AAA was in it's final days. I'm sorry that things didn't work out for all my east family! I'm sorry it didn't work out for anyone from any carrier that furloughed pilots! Lets look at the TWA and Pan am and even more recently independance air, all paid the ultimate to do what we love so dearly.

Now finally, your reps!!! PHL, PIT have always been the hard liners, trust me I know more that you think about them! They poorly and incompetently represented the pilots with the all or nothing stance. This should have never happened! They lied to all of you and you need to make examples of them over it!! When you poorly represent those who elected you, you remove the problem. Your problems still exist on the east in a big way...

No matter what we are going to have to get our TOTAL ACT together.

 

[N924PS]

The fact of the matter AWA320 is that if it wasn't for all the concessions that the east took you at America West would have gone into bankruptcy, and if you believe anything different than I suggest that US drug tests you because that would be the only reason you spout your garbage. We in the East blame our management for all the cuts we took but I blame that punk drunk Doogie for what went down. Behind the curtain he was controling the concessionary talks and if he didn't get what he wanted the merger would not have taken place and you would be getting it shoved up yours. It is scarry that we have someone behind the controls of an aircraft that has a mindset like yours. You should be controling a Tonka Toy and not a multimillion dollar aircraft. It is bad enough that the pilots made mistakes in their concessionary contracts but for you to throw fuel to the fire just shows the lack of maturity that you have. Grow up and stay away from the koolaid! Have a beautiful day!

PS I'll bet you were in diapers when most of us started with the company! Or maybe you were just a tadpole!

If you don't believe HP was in imminent danger of bankruptcy prior to the merger read this:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/706...p70508e10vq.htm

 

[A320 Driver]

Now finally, your reps!!! PHL, PIT have always been the hard liners, trust me I know more that you think about them! They poorly and incompetently represented the pilots with the all or nothing stance. This should have never happened! They lied to all of you and you need to make examples of them over it!! When you poorly represent those who elected you, you remove the problem. Your problems still exist on the east in a big way...

No matter what we are going to have to get our TOTAL ACT together.

Easier said than done. The PHL and PIT reps enjoy solid support in their bases and have weathered more than one recall attempt. Their spin is accepted as fact and they have managed to escape, in large part, the wrath of that part of the pilot group that does not agree with them. I have talked to pilots so fed up with the mess in those bases that they purposely did not pay ALPA assessments so as to be placed in bad standing with the union so the PHL reps could not use them for role call (spelled cram down) votes.

Even A320 Pilot supports them at this juncture and in the past was one of their most vocal opponents.

We will not agree, you and I, on many of the issues surrounding the seniority integration...neither will we change each others mind. It is safe to say that much of what is stated here is opinion. The facts...well, once again depend on your personal perspective.

And...your right, it's Saturday.

A320 Driver B)

 

[AWA320]

If you don't believe HP was in imminent danger of bankruptcy prior to the merger read this:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/706...p70508e10vq.htm


Ok this is what I found on that SEC filing you provided, so tell me what it is you want me and others to see??

During the first quarter of 2005, our improved revenue performance substantially offset the impact of record high jet fuel prices as follows:

• Passenger revenues were $575.4 million for the quarter, an increase of $38.1 million from the first quarter of 2004. Passenger revenue per available seat mile (“RASMâ€) was 7.88 cents for the first quarter of 2005, an increase of 7.8% versus the 2004 first quarter, driven by a 5.5 point increase in load factor with no deterioration in yield. The Company’s strong unit revenue improvement was due to more aggressive yield management in the 2005 first quarter and more balanced capacity in the markets served by AWA. Reductions in late 2004 of the Company’s transcontinental flying, which yields were negatively impacted by competitive responses, also contributed to improved period-over-period RASM and yield performance.

• The airline industry and AWA incurred and continue to face an increase in costs resulting from record high jet fuel prices. The average price per gallon of fuel increased 34.6% from 105.3 cents in the first quarter of 2004 to 141.7 cents per gallon in the first quarter of 2005. As a result, aircraft fuel expense for the quarter was $151.9 million, an increase of $37.7 million, or 33.0% from the first quarter of 2004.


Holdings realized a pretax and net profit of $33.6 million, or $0.62 per diluted share, for the first quarter of 2005. During the first quarter we benefited from a $60.5 million gain associated with the Company’s fuel hedging transactions. Of this amount, $11.6 million was net realized gains on settled hedge transactions. The remaining $48.9 million was unrealized gains resulting from the application of mark-to-market accounting for changes in the fair value of the Company’s fuel hedging instruments. The Company is required to use mark-to-market accounting as its fuel hedging instruments do not meet the requirements for hedge accounting as established by Statement of Financial Accounting Standards No. 133, “Accounting for Derivative Instruments and Hedging Activities.†If these instruments had qualified for hedge accounting treatment, any unrealized gains or losses, including the $48.9 million discussed above, would be deferred in other comprehensive income, a subset of stockholders’ equity until the jet fuel is purchased and the underlying fuel hedging instrument is settled. Given the market volatility of jet fuel, the fair value of these fuel hedging instruments is expected to change until settled.

As of March 31, 2005, Holdings unrestricted and restricted cash, cash equivalents, short-term investments, and investments in debt securities totaled $345.3 million, of which $253.7 million was unrestricted. Although there can be no assurances, we believe that cash flows from operating activities, combined with these cash balances and our financing commitments, will be adequate to fund our operating and capital needs as well as enable us to maintain compliance with our various debt agreements through at least December 31, 2005.