Delta Labor Relations thread.

[keeptheodds]

Where did you ever come up with that? I would like to see some data that shows as you state that once an A&P becomes an AMT the performance of the airline goes down. And by the way, I believe the performance numbers are all increasing and doing very well thru-out the industry with improvements at all airlines. Please explain details.

This was an argument between myself and Ken McTernian, I think that was his name, that started twelve years ago. I see nothing has changed. The AMT title has absolutely nothing backing it. My argument was that any idiot off the street can be an AMT simply because the guidelines of being called an AMT is so broad and there in no type of training or education required to have the title bestowed upon someone working in the industry. It's has become a mainstream title in the industry but other than doing some form of maintenance task in the industry you are considered an AMT. That is dangerous for the industry. Especially considering the ones that went through the trouble of earning their A&P.

How many people do you know that are working as an AMT that does not hold an A&P certificate making the same money as you?

I ran across this on several occasions. MRO's are required to have, not exactly sure of the numbers, let's say one A&P for every ten uncertified AMT's. Yet the A&P certified mechanics made the same as the uncertified AMT's and everyone was considered an AMT. Ken didn't seem to see an issue with this hopefully you can see the dangers in this.

Here's an example for you. This MRO would bring in a bunch of guys in from the local Manpower office. All they did was pull out the seats and change the seat covers then assist in the reintallation of the seats. They were considered AMT's even though it was the first time some had set foot on an aircraft.

I told Ken that if he wanted to replace the A&P term with AMT that would be fine but to quit pushing a term that has no real meaning.

 

[swamt]

How many people do you know that are working as an AMT that does not hold an A&P certificate making the same money as you?.

Not the same money as me, but there are some at 3rd party FBO's just as you explained making somewhere between 15-24 per hour. All AMT's at SWA have A&P's, as it is a requirement to be hired at SWA. I know AA has some unlicensed mechanics, but I thought they were titled mechanic helper or junior mechanic and they were on a different pay scale and therefore not making the same as A&P mechanics. Also the A&P lic. premiums are only paid to mechanics with A&P's therefore they would not be paid the same as licensed mechanics. So to be honest, I really do not know of any mechanics without their A&P's being paid the same as licensed mechanics at any airline or FBO.

 

[keeptheodds]

Not the same money as me, but there are some at 3rd party FBO's just as you explained making somewhere between 15-24 per hour. All AMT's at SWA have A&P's, as it is a requirement to be hired at SWA. I know AA has some unlicensed mechanics, but I thought they were titled mechanic helper or junior mechanic and they were on a different pay scale and therefore not making the same as A&P mechanics. Also the A&P lic. premiums are only paid to mechanics with A&P's therefore they would not be paid the same as licensed mechanics. So to be honest, I really do not know of any mechanics without their A&P's being paid the same as licensed mechanics at any airline or FBO.

The FAA looks at anyone who works on an aircraft, component of, or manufacturing to include FAA-PMA is an AMT. Ken McTernian is the real expert on this ask him. No A&P required. Strom, PlaneTechs, STS pay the same rates to all AMT's regardless if they hold an A&P or not. That's just how the MRO's work. The few FBO's that I have worked at do the same thing. Especially when the brother-in-law gets involved.

 

[Birdman]

I know AA has some unlicensed mechanics, but I thought they were titled mechanic helper or junior mechanic and they were on a different pay scale and therefore not making the same as A&P mechanics.

Actually AA has had non-A&P's working on aircraft since the 90's because I worked right beside them. The TWU made sure, with contract language, that they were paid within a few dollars of A&P's. Not only that but any other Title I (machinist and welder?) displaced in a RIF also would up right beside A&P's, occurred then and occurring now.

 

[swamt]

Actually AA has had non-A&P's working on aircraft since the 90's because I worked right beside them. The TWU made sure, with contract language, that they were paid within a few dollars of A&P's. Not only that but any other Title I (machinist and welder?) displaced in a RIF also would up right beside A&P's, occurred then and occurring now.

Ok thx for the update. It still affirms my original statement to keeptheodds, which is I do no know of any non licensed mechanics getting the same pay as licensed mechanics (A&P's)

 

[swamt]

Congrats on the PS news guys!! What does it come to on average for each mechanic? I think ours is around 13-14K. Again congrats...

Delta to pay out more than $1 billion in profit sharing on Feb. 14, thanks to record-setting year

 

[Kev3188]

AMTs received a payout equal to 10.3% of their eligible earnings.

 

[swamt]

Thx Kev. Enjoy your bonus (PS), and enjoy that raise coming to you all in April...

 

[topDawg]

So did the A&P's of Delta ever unionize or not? Delta's performance numbers suggest they didn't. Once A&P's become AMT's performance numbers usually spiral downward.

an AMT at Delta is an A&P (or at least one of them) or someone with some kind of speciality, i.e. Coneheads and painters.
An ASM is a mechanic that doesn't use or have their license.

Just speaking for myself, I'm perfectly happy to take a bit less if it means I don't have to deal with a union.

I don't disagree.
my point was, Delta doesn't generally give us big raises unless other unionized carriers get them or they take something that makes the "raise" basically flat or even a loss to the employee. In this case it was an answer to United and American getting pay raises.

At this time I don't see how a union would benefit the mechanics at Delta. The only possible way would be if it was a VERY non-militant in-house type deal. It would be nice if we had someone to make Delta make clear policies/work rules etc. and stick to them. Even that could be bad in certain ways.

A big union like the IAM, TWU, IBT and probably even AMFA would be a very stupid choice for Delta mechanics though.

 

[WeAAsles]

How’s things coming along over here? The organizing moving at a frantic pace?

 

[Kev3188]

Yep

 

[WeAAsles]

See Kev. Look here. Last post before mine was over a year ago.

DEAD.

 

[Kev3188]

Stop whining; it’s beneath you.

 

[southwind]

Nope! Not a peep...nothing but tumbleweeds a tumblin'!

 

[Kev3188]

On here? That’s true.

At work? It’s not.

Happy (early) May Day, btw.