Union vs Non Union My Response

[Dignity]

NW used the RLA which favors companies to achieve their goal.

how?

 

[700UW]

Are you kidding me?

The RLA was enacted to prevent the disruption of interstate commerce.

CBAs under the RLA dont expire, they become amendable it can take years sometimes to reach a new CBA.

CBAs under the NLRA contracts expire and you can strike right way, not under the RLA, and companies know this and drag out negotiations to save money, most CBAs in the airline industry are agreed upon during the 30 day cooling off period.

How, they had two years to prepare and train scabs to replace the AMTs and secure contacts with outside MROs to overhaul planes and components, that is not bargaining in good faith as the RLA requires.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

believe me I get what you are saying, but it just doesnt make any sense, at least to me anyway.. why someone with an ounce of common sense would even think about going that route going forward?

Dig,

I quit asking why and started asking how....how could we best protect (minimize) ourselves from getting pummeled again by an overzealous, greedy CEO? I miss the DL widget of old when it stood for a symbol of service. It has been reduced to a victim of Ron Allen and a funeral held in memory by Leo Mullin. I feel as if Richard Anderson will put us on a race to the bottom if no unions are on the property. Actually, we wouldn't have that far to go....

Regrettably, I'm too young to retire and too old to start over.

2BnB

 

[Dignity]

I do not think you are thinking this through clearly..

RLA protects the workers too..it protected us up until the union threw it all out the window..

(believe me.. it has taken some time to try and digest what they did)

that does not necessarily mean, a union is always bad thing either.

 

[Dignity]

Dig,

I quit asking why and started asking how....how could we best protect (minimize) ourselves from getting pummeled again by an overzealous, greedy CEO?

I completely get what you are saying..seriously.

I miss the DL widget of old when it stood for a symbol of service. It has been reduced to a victim of Ron Allen and a funeral held in memory by Leo Mullin.

that is sort of my point earlier, the bad ones are shown the door..

will put us on a race to the bottom if no unions are on the property. Actually, we wouldn't have that far to go....

they really have something very different and positive going on there..this is not a line of BS either. I had a very positive feeling going into their training facility for IQ, I cannot explain it, my gut feeling is simply they, the airline, are very good people. but Im not naive either.. just trying to keep an open mind..(and its not that easy to do based on the history where we came from, but Im trying..)

Regrettably, I'm too young to retire and too old to start over.

I do not think you are going to have to start over.

 

[700UW]

I do not think you are thinking this through clearly..

RLA protects the workers too..it protected us up until the union threw it all out the window..

(believe me.. it has taken some time to try and digest what they did)

that does not necessarily mean, a union is always bad thing either.

Listen I worked under the RLA for 20 years, been on a couple of different negotiating committees, the only thing the RLA does is make sure during negotiations it remains status quo and sets up procedures on union elections and arbitration.

It offers the companies way more protections than for workers, do you not understand the purpose of the was to stop all the great train strikes that were occurring?

The act is specifically set up to prevent the disruption of interstate commerce.

At us we (M&R) went on strike in 92 after three years of negotiating, the next CBA took 4 1/2 years to negotiate which we voted one down and went into super mediation and a 30 day cooling off period to reach a new CBA, in that 4 1/2 years prices of good went up but not our wages.

Go read a book called Strike, its all about the railroad strikes and how the RLA came about.

 

[Dignity]

Listen I worked under the RLA for 20 years, been on a couple of different negotiating committees, the only thing the RLA does is make sure during negotiations it remains status quo and sets up procedures on union elections and arbitration.

and I have worked just as long at a company where it was 100 percent necessary having a contract in place..

(I am not dismissing, having something in writing is important, because it is...)

it is that 'us vs them' idea that has failed over and over, it will fail again.

(it just doesnt get anyone, anywhere)

It offers the companies way more protections than for workers, do you not understand the purpose of the was to stop all the great train strikes that were occurring?

if that is true, then basically we have no voice either way.. if you believe it offers the "companies" more protections than the workers.

 

[southwind]

Apparently you dont read, NW had a plan, they planned for two years prior to eliminate mtc, yes the AMTs played into their hands and NW used the RLA which favors companies to achieve their goal.

But at least they had to negotiate with AMFA, what did DL do to the AMTs during bankruptcy, how many negotiating sessions did DL hold with the AMTs in DFW and TPA when they shut the hangars down and sent the work to vendors in the US and overseas?

If you have enough deductions you get 100% credit, and I will tell you what, my union dues was the best $42 a month I ever spent. Unions arent cure alls or miracle workers but I would rather have a union and a CBA, cause DL tomorrow can say your making $10 an hour, take it or leave, cant do that to someone if you have a CBA, now can they?

And maybe you need to read the yellow book about taxes.

And at US after we took concessions in 92, we got double our money back in cash over a two year period and stock options for the dollar amount we gave back at $15 a share, sure was nice selling it at $60 a share and making a nice profit.

Also nice when we got raises and signing bonuses when we ratified new CBAs in 95 and 99, did you get anything like that from DL?

Oh wait, you didnt, cause you dont have a CBA.

At US AMTs before bankruptcy were making $30+ an hour, and all our planes were done inhouse, we had over 6,000 mechanics on the property for 300+ planes. Heck as a stock clerk I was making $22 an hour and when we ratified the CBA in 99 I got a $3.35 raise, plus two signing bonuses.

I will take a union anyday, why do you think you made what you made?

It was to keep unions off DL's property.

And as a stock clerk , I feel you were over-paid @ $22.00 an hour !

Just because a union says a dude should be paid $35.00 bucks an hour, for screwing a lug nut on, doesn't mean it makes good business sense !

 

[700UW]

So lets outsource your job to someone making $5 cause it makes good business sense, its ok right, you understand right?

And an aircraft mechanic does a hell of a lot more than screwing a lug nut on, they can go to jail and/or kill someone if they do their job wrong.

Simply amazing, go educate yourself or would you rather just be a slave and do what ever the man tells you to do?

And by the way, the company agreed to those wages, so who cares what you think!

 

[tech2101]

And as a stock clerk , I feel you were over-paid @ $22.00 an hour !

Just because a union says a dude should be paid $35.00 bucks an hour, for screwing a lug nut on, doesn't mean it makes good business sense !

That is probably the most ignorant post I have seen in a long time.

There are two signatures on every agreement.

When you pay someone to come and do some work for you; after they are done, do you tell them nah, you were not worth that...

Since the value of your house has gone down, you should not have to pay as much per month, right?

Does that make sense to you?

 

[southwind]

That is probably the most ignorant post I have seen in a long time.

There are two signatures on every agreement.

When you pay someone to come and do some work for you; after they are done, do you tell them nah, you were not worth that...

Since the value of your house has gone down, you should not have to pay as much per month, right?

Does that make sense to you?

Then please tell me Tech, how much would you pay a stock clerk or someone putting the same nut on the same stud at "YOUR COMPANY" ?

No beatin' around the bush or commenting on the question or asking me for a source....................just answer the question !

 

[southwind]

So lets outsource your job to someone making $5 cause it makes good business sense, its ok right, you understand right?

And an aircraft mechanic does a hell of a lot more than screwing a lug nut on, they can go to jail and/or kill someone if they do their job wrong.

Simply amazing, go educate yourself or would you rather just be a slave and do what ever the man tells you to do?

And by the way, the company agreed to those wages, so who cares what you think!

As far as the lug nut comment , I was referring to someone that works for Government Motors on an assembly line and a stock clerk..................man you union dudes are touchy ! :down:

 

[WoRkInG]

You sound like a baptist minister trying to get a methadist to go catholic.

If being catholic will get you to heaven (union) then so be it.

 

[WoRkInG]

Thank you Dignity for this post. You put a lot of thought and heart into your posts. Ever think of being president of your union?

GET A ROOM!!!!

 

[WoRkInG]

believe me I get what you are saying, but it just doesnt make any sense, at least to me anyway.. why someone with an ounce of common sense would even think about going that route going forward?

It's called greed you know