Delta Labor Relations thread.

[Airlinelifer]

DL has not insourced a single station that was not already a PMNW ramp station.  PMNW 40 ramp stations to PMDL14 ramp stations. With PMNW;s IAM contract 49 flights a week, ramp is worked by mainline personnel.
 
And to those that have a limited view of the IAMNPF, I was set to receive over $1400.00/mo in 2028, plus my frozen NW pension and Social Security. A life long benefit.
 
Can anyone confirm that DTW ramp only has 6 PT lines....and that the ratio is already 60% FT 40% RR....just want to hear from someone who works their.

 

[Black Magic]

None whatsoever.
 
And while Delta hasn't contracted out any ramp stations in many years, we've also seen a situation where both above-wing as well as below-wing frontline positions in ACS being back-filled almost exclusively with "Ready Reserves".....as recently as 5-6 years ago the ready reserve program was just as the title implies.....a small group of employees who were essentially at-will employees who would come in and boost staffing in ACS during busy periods throughout the year. They would work with local leadership at their stations to come up with an agreeable work schedule that worked for both the employee and the company.I believe they had to work a minimum of 300 hours per year, though i'm not certain of that number.
 
That's clearly not how things are done any longer. In many stations throughout the system, including hubs, the "Ready Reserve" program is now a large, and dare i say, critically vital component of staffing as far as ACS is concerned. No longer do ready reserves call up their local Operations Service Manager and give them their available days they can work, but rather, they're required to bid a scheduled line with set days off and set start/stop times based on their seniority. Doesn't exactly fit the definition of a "READY RESERVE", now does it? Gone are the days of simply working a few days per month to reach the minimum 300 hour-per-year threshold. Now the bar has been raised to working up to 1300 hours per year, which itself was raised from 999 hours per year max a few years back.
 
I can't speak for the hubs, but in the smaller "focus/significant cities" where there is above and below wing employees, the Ready Reserve portion of the workforce has gone from a very small minimal percentage to upwards of 30-50% in many cases in a few short years.

 
Once again..what is forcing these people to take the job or stay as a ready reserve?  I laugh at people that think every job should be a "livable wage" as if there is a set standard that everyone must adhere too.  You think the pizza delivery guy deserves $30 an hour guess what?! Your large pizza now will cost $50.  There is NO such thing as income equality! It's the biggest lie and ruse of all time. If unions want to start talking about income inequality then they need to be the first ones in line making the same salaray as front line worker. Until then they can STFU!!

 

[Black Magic]

For all the the scare tactics and lies of the IAM trying to unionize Delta for more dues.  Look at the facts here on the Delta forum compared to AA.  10 times more unhappy people on unionized AA page compared to Delta.  If that isn't proof of what a failure the IAM/TWU or any other union is I don't know what is.

 

[1AA]

For all the the scare tactics and lies of the IAM trying to unionize Delta for more dues.  Look at the facts here on the Delta forum compared to AA.  10 times more unhappy people on unionized AA page compared to Delta.  If that isn't proof of what a failure the IAM/TWU or any other union is I don't know what is.

Bulls eye. Right on target. We at AA never wanted the IAM. The IAM slithered it's way in the door at AA. Beware of those IAM leaches that troll these boards telling you you need the IAM or your doomed. If you guys wanted a union then you would have went after one on your own. My advice to the flight attendant's and AMT'S is to go after a class and craft union if you so desire. Stay as far as possible from any industrial union.
The TWU is a Totally Worthless Union.
The IAM is a union of Idiots And Morons.
The Teamsters are crooks.

 

[Kev3188]

For all the the scare tactics and lies of the IAM trying to unionize Delta for more dues.  Look at the facts here on the Delta forum compared to AA.  10 times more unhappy people on unionized AA page compared to Delta.  If that isn't proof of what a failure the IAM/TWU or any other union is I don't know what is.

It's "proof" that there has always been far more AA/US employees posting on this site than NW or DL people... You've been around long enough to know that...

 

[Kev3188]

If you guys wanted a union then you would have went after one on your own.

And if you guys (collectively) were so opposed to the TWU, they'd already have been gone.


And if everyone at the new AA was so against the Association (which I am, BTW), that would've been stopped as well...

See how that works?

 

[Bill Vestrup]

And if you guys (collectively) were so opposed to the TWU, they'd already have been gone.


And if everyone at the new AA was so against the Association (which I am, BTW), that would've been stopped as well...

See how that works?

 
Agreed, much like how the past union drives ie: IAM, AFA, etc has failed to gain traction at DAL for the reasoning.

 

[WeAAsles]

For all the the scare tactics and lies of the IAM trying to unionize Delta for more dues.  Look at the facts here on the Delta forum compared to AA.  10 times more unhappy people on unionized AA page compared to Delta.  If that isn't proof of what a failure the IAM/TWU or any other union is I don't know what is.

I think you're a very confused person. Yes look at the AA forums. Who are the major complainers. About a dozen aircraft mechanics out of somewhere in the range of 12,000 total mechanics. There was a raid attempt on the US side for mechanics and the IAM won that contest. (The contest was between the IAM and IBT) Only 10 or 12 people out of that contest voted for no Union. Doesn't seem to me like those people were interested at all in going unrepresented.

Do you think it would be much different if the combined new AA got to take that vote? Absolutely not. Maybe they would change their Union???? But as far as wanting to go the Delta route, NOT HAPPENING.

Now when you converse with Kev or I we're talking about Fleet Service. As far as I know there is no organizing drive for Mechanics at Delta. Fleet service at Delta is being taken advantage of and I have no doubt about it. The RR's are probably lured in with the thought they will eventually move up and out of the RR ranks? Maybe it was at one point but it doesn't seem to be happening anymore or too often. So these people I can bet are being promised something that just isn't coming there way and may not ever come there way? How much time are they wasting on the hollow empty promise is the question?

Should every job start at or offer $20 or a top wage? Of course not, ridiculous. But every job should be able to tell you in complete honesty if there is a path to get there or let people know, no there is no path to that here.

I'm in Fleet at AA and again there is no way that I would trade places with Kev even if you told me I would make more $$MONEY$$ for the rest of my career by far by making the move. Nothing personal to Kev but no way, no sir, no chance, uh uh.  

 

[700UW]

 

[topDawg]

So if the IAM is the scope killer than explain the PMUS scope for fleet in the agreement?

Hint one flight a day.

One contract out of multiple **** shows. Good for them. I'm sure they will screw that one up with the TWU here soon too. 
 

None whatsoever.
 
And while Delta hasn't contracted out any ramp stations in many years, we've also seen a situation where both above-wing as well as below-wing frontline positions in ACS being back-filled almost exclusively with "Ready Reserves".....as recently as 5-6 years ago the ready reserve program was just as the title implies.....a small group of employees who were essentially at-will employees who would come in and boost staffing in ACS during busy periods throughout the year. They would work with local leadership at their stations to come up with an agreeable work schedule that worked for both the employee and the company.I believe they had to work a minimum of 300 hours per year, though i'm not certain of that number.
 
That's clearly not how things are done any longer. In many stations throughout the system, including hubs, the "Ready Reserve" program is now a large, and dare i say, critically vital component of staffing as far as ACS is concerned. No longer do ready reserves call up their local Operations Service Manager and give them their available days they can work, but rather, they're required to bid a scheduled line with set days off and set start/stop times based on their seniority. Doesn't exactly fit the definition of a "READY RESERVE", now does it? Gone are the days of simply working a few days per month to reach the minimum 300 hour-per-year threshold. Now the bar has been raised to working up to 1300 hours per year, which itself was raised from 999 hours per year max a few years back.
 
I can't speak for the hubs, but in the smaller "focus/significant cities" where there is above and below wing employees, the Ready Reserve portion of the workforce has gone from a very small minimal percentage to upwards of 30-50% in many cases in a few short years.

I agree with this. As I said below, Delta is abusing what was once something that wasn't a bad thing. 
 

I'll take the 30 permanently staffed and everyone on the same pay scale and benefits over this type of turd any day of the week.

 
because you aren't living in 2016. 
 
Nothing wrong with Ready Reserve just like there is nothing wrong with ASM/OSMs in maintenance. One day you guys will have to wake up and realize that Delta, American and United are competing with airlines that are outsourcing most/all of their work to companies paying minimum wage. Remember bankruptcy? was it fun for you? A lot of that was management screw ups but part of that was also labor living in the 1950s. 
 
RR/ASM/OSMs only become a problem when the companies start abusing them like Delta is doing with RR now. You say you would rather not have those jobs, I say I would rather have them (limited) and then give those people a chance over time to move up if they chose. Believe it or not Delta has RRs that want and enjoy that job. (not a big gig for students for example) 
 
The problem is Delta is now abusing the system. That issue needs to be fixed, but it would be stupid and foolish to completely dump the system. Bankruptcy rolls around and you are just giving them more firepower to cut everyone. 

 

[700UW]

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2016/06/07/delta-pilots-will-picket-2016-shareholders-meting.html
 
Delta pilots will picket 2016 shareholders meeting
 

 

[700UW]

 

[WeAAsles]

One contract out of multiple #### shows. Good for them. I'm sure they will screw that one up with the TWU here soon too. 
 
I agree with this. As I said below, Delta is abusing what was once something that wasn't a bad thing. 
 
 
because you aren't living in 2016. 
 
Nothing wrong with Ready Reserve just like there is nothing wrong with ASM/OSMs in maintenance. One day you guys will have to wake up and realize that Delta, American and United are competing with airlines that are outsourcing most/all of their work to companies paying minimum wage. Remember bankruptcy? was it fun for you? A lot of that was management screw ups but part of that was also labor living in the 1950s. 
 
RR/ASM/OSMs only become a problem when the companies start abusing them like Delta is doing with RR now. You say you would rather not have those jobs, I say I would rather have them (limited) and then give those people a chance over time to move up if they chose. Believe it or not Delta has RRs that want and enjoy that job. (not a big gig for students for example) 
 
The problem is Delta is now abusing the system. That issue needs to be fixed, but it would be stupid and foolish to completely dump the system. Bankruptcy rolls around and you are just giving them more firepower to cut everyone. 

On the contrary Dawg. I'm keenly aware of what year it is. Don't mistake me that I'm blaming Delta management for just taking advantage of what those people allow them to do to them without voting to be represented and at least trying to get that changed. I also don't blame the sub contracting companies for doing the same thing as long as they can get away with it. If they're getting a steady pool of applicants who feel about themselves that this is the best they can do, that's who needs to shoulder the blame. 

In this case I blame the Delta rampers themselves. They're witnessing all of these things happening around them and all they're doing about it is cowering in the shadows and the background hoping that things change or that others stand up for them. They're hoping for an Angel to swoop in on a White horse and lift them up. 

I understand very well also that society as a whole is trying to do away with good paying jobs for people with minimal skills and education. The days of earning a decent wage for the sweat you provide is getting little value in return.

Back to Delta ramp though I'm just wondering if they have a breaking point? So far it just doesn't seem like they do if Kev is right and they're growing and taking advantage of that RR system. My involvement in the discussion does come with a bit of selfishness because I'm aware that my Union has to compete with what goes on over there. But as far as the RR idea ever being introduced in the house I live in, I don't know? It's just not something I feel very comfortable with. The idea that for me to have great pay and benefits I have to stand on top of these guys shoulders. Because that's really what it is let's not fool ourselves.

I want my Union to give my company some flexibility in case the need arises again as you said. Just trying to figure out where to draw that line is the hard part?

 

[1AA]

IAM still signing cards? That flyer was dated two years ago.

 

[Kev3188]

The IAM isn't, but DL employees sure are...