Congrats Afw! Ual/amfa's 777

[Nightwatch]

AMFA finally did it! Allowed outsourcing to the TWU! Or is this just a terrible rumor?

 

[Decision 2004]

AMFA finally did it! Allowed outsourcing to the TWU! Or is this just a terrible rumor?

[post="203038"][/post]​

Even if it was true, how can it be AMFA allowing it? Did you once again forget that it was the IAM that negotiated the outsource debacle in a scorched earth move?

You refuse to understand and remember the facts when presented time and time again.

No wonder you support the TWU, you cannot even comprehend the truth when it is presented in documented format.

 

[767 mechanic]

AMFA finally did it! Allowed outsourcing to the TWU! Or is this just a terrible rumor?

[post="203038"][/post]​

NW.............I knew that it would be you that would try and put the twu spin on this. Just to let you know this is a lease A/C that had been returned to the leaser by united,not an A/C that was owned or even being flown by ual. This A/C was sitting in the desert and is now being leased by air india and will have a check that is equal to somwhere between a B-check and C-check of ours. There is also the possibility that there will be 3 or 4 more checks similiar to this one. HEY .... Nighty I thought the twu and jim little had promised that all 3rd party work was going to KC. I guess old jimmy boy lied to you boys again. When are you and the other believers in KC going to wake up and understand that chicken little will do nothing,but lie to you.

 

[local 12 proud]

is it possible that 3rd party work was never really planned for K.C. at all ? nahhhhhh!!!!!! they would never lie to ya

 

[767 mechanic]

is it possible that 3rd party work was never really planned for K.C. at all ? nahhhhhh!!!!!! they would never lie to ya

[post="203203"][/post]​

That is exactly what it sounds like to me. That was not only a major snow job. I believe that could be classified as a blizzard.

 

[Nightwatch]

Now that is exactly what was determined to be Decision's response, thx brother, made me a quick $5. Hey Dave, do you know when AMFA will be responsible for anything? That's what I thought.

And as far as MCIE getting all the 3rd party work, it was never believed here that we would see one part of 3rd party work. Sure there are a few union officials that hold a dream here, but the membership, still sore from the blows dealt by the TWU membership, do not believe to much from empty promises.

So far we have heard:
1. Welcome to the AA family, but do you mind to awful much if we put up a fence around you all, just a little something to protect our less senior members.
2. Hey guys, keep that production up and we'll send ya more work. First A/C went out at 113% productivity, 3 weeks early...for this they cut our crews by 5 mechanics and took 2 weeks off the op...oh yeah...then they sent the work south and gave more smoke and mirrors.
3. FAR 145 certification is important boys...look sharp!...Got it and now they send 3rd party work elsewhere...oh yeah..they did give us an old Reno air M80 lease return...the last of many that were being accomplished at AAR...now we hear,,,"gotta make it look good boys!..this will be a model that others will look at!!" Now keep in mind this is days after the furlough letters were handed out in the "SHARED SACRIFICE" program to do away with all TWAers.


So you guys see, believe it or not, we have no faith in AA, or it's members. Life goes on, can't wait to hear the next game plan.

 

[Buck]

Now that is exactly what was determined to be Decision's response, thx brother, made me a quick $5. Hey Dave, do you know when AMFA will be responsible for anything? That's what I thought.

And as far as MCIE getting all the 3rd party work, it was never believed here that we would see one part of 3rd party work. Sure there are a few union officials that hold a dream here, but the membership, still sore from the blows dealt by the TWU membership, do not believe to much from empty promises.

So far we have heard:
1. Welcome to the AA family, but do you mind to awful much if we put up a fence around you all, just a little something to protect our less senior members.
2. Hey guys, keep that production up and we'll send ya more work. First A/C went out at 113% productivity, 3 weeks early...for this they cut our crews by 5 mechanics and took 2 weeks off the op...oh yeah...then they sent the work south and gave more smoke and mirrors.
3. FAR 145 certification is important boys...look sharp!...Got it and now they send 3rd party work elsewhere...oh yeah..they did give us an old Reno air M80 lease return...the last of many that were being accomplished at AAR...now we hear,,,"gotta make it look good boys!..this will be a model that others will look at!!" Now keep in mind this is days after the furlough letters were handed out in the "SHARED SACRIFICE" program to do away with all TWAers.
So you guys see, believe it or not, we have no faith in AA, or it's members. Life goes on, can't wait to hear the next game plan.

[post="203207"][/post]​

So why does the MCI membership support the TWU?

 

[seed]

Now that is exactly what was determined to be Decision's response, thx brother, made me a quick $5. Hey Dave, do you know when AMFA will be responsible for anything? That's what I thought.

And as far as MCIE getting all the 3rd party work, it was never believed here that we would see one part of 3rd party work. Sure there are a few union officials that hold a dream here, but the membership, still sore from the blows dealt by the TWU membership, do not believe to much from empty promises.

So far we have heard:
1. Welcome to the AA family, but do you mind to awful much if we put up a fence around you all, just a little something to protect our less senior members.
2. Hey guys, keep that production up and we'll send ya more work. First A/C went out at 113% productivity, 3 weeks early...for this they cut our crews by 5 mechanics and took 2 weeks off the op...oh yeah...then they sent the work south and gave more smoke and mirrors.
3. FAR 145 certification is important boys...look sharp!...Got it and now they send 3rd party work elsewhere...oh yeah..they did give us an old Reno air M80 lease return...the last of many that were being accomplished at AAR...now we hear,,,"gotta make it look good boys!..this will be a model that others will look at!!" Now keep in mind this is days after the furlough letters were handed out in the "SHARED SACRIFICE" program to do away with all TWAers.
So you guys see, believe it or not, we have no faith in AA, or it's members. Life goes on, can't wait to hear the next game plan.

[post="203207"][/post]​

I see AA has finally beaten you down to the point of giving up. Just what AA, TWU and their membership want you to do. They spent millions of dollars to get you to this point. It must be a game to them. It would have been so easy to just shut MCI down, but they had to show the world how they could crush TWA and all their X employees. Yes, the membership and the AMFA supporters, they are laughing at you now. They have beaten you into submission. Give up, that is the thing to do. Show them they were right all along. Give up, whine, cry, do whatever it takes to show you are beaten. Your union doesn't support you so why try anymore. Dave Stewart even told you once that AMFA wouldn't support MCI either. So you are doing the right thing. Is there a place on your Option sheet that says "Never coming back"? :down:

 

[Drippy Quill]

I see AA has finally beaten you down to the point of giving up. Just what AA, TWU and their membership want you to do. They spent millions of dollars to get you to this point. It must be a game to them. It would have been so easy to just shut MCI down, but they had to show the world how they could crush TWA and all their X employees. Yes, the membership and the AMFA supporters, they are laughing at you now. They have beaten you into submission. Give up, that is the thing to do. Show them they were right all along. Give up, whine, cry, do whatever it takes to show you are beaten. Your union doesn't support you so why try anymore. Dave Stewart even told you once that AMFA wouldn't support MCI either. So you are doing the right thing. Is there a place on your Option sheet that says "Never coming back"? :down:

[post="203244"][/post]​

Ahh but you are wrong seed. The likes of NW and I are not beaten down by no stretch of the imagination. Sounds like wishful thinking on someone's part. Not at all, now is when the fun starts. Now is when the management team and the TWU get to explain to the MCIE members exactly what is on their agenda. I will simply fuel the fire from within, I believe we have the right to know.

As you are aware after June 2005 there is absolutely no maintenance scheduled for MCIE. I believe we have the right to know if we are "family" or if we are simply in a foster home here. I believe our local E-board is doing all they can to secure 3rd party work, that is why AA through us a "bone" with the Reno Air A/C. Had they truly desired to see what the MCIE crew could do in regards to 3rd party work and completion of same they would have tested us earlier, or better yet, looked into our history of working for Horizon, UPS, C9, Hawaiian, and others.

And here's another little tid bit that doesn't set well in my craw. These joint TWU/AA committees, how many do we have now? The ALT, JLT, and others to include the self-audit committee. We are way to friendly with management here. I agree a certain rapport should be established and trust built upon that, but we have taken this to a new level. How do you adamantly show your disapproval to your lunch buddies? Your cigarette break buddies, and I'd lay ya odds even your dinner guests at some point. I suggest, to deaf ears I know, that we separate and become a union again. If our future is to walk down I-29 then so be it, but do it standing up and not on your knees.

Is there a place on your option sheet that reads : Leave with union integrity intact.

 

[Buck]

Ahh but you are wrong seed. The likes of NW and I are not beaten down by no stretch of the imagination. Sounds like wishful thinking on someone's part. Not at all, now is when the fun starts. Now is when the management team and the TWU get to explain to the MCIE members exactly what is on their agenda. I will simply fuel the fire from within, I believe we have the right to know.

As you are aware after June 2005 there is absolutely no maintenance scheduled for MCIE. I believe we have the right to know if we are "family" or if we are simply in a foster home here. I believe our local E-board is doing all they can to secure 3rd party work, that is why AA through us a "bone" with the Reno Air A/C. Had they truly desired to see what the MCIE crew could do in regards to 3rd party work and completion of same they would have tested us earlier, or better yet, looked into our history of working for Horizon, UPS, C9, Hawaiian, and others.

And here's another little tid bit that doesn't set well in my craw. These joint TWU/AA committees, how many do we have now? The ALT, JLT, and others to include the self-audit committee. We are way to friendly with management here. I agree a certain rapport should be established and trust built upon that, but we have taken this to a new level. How do you adamantly show your disapproval to your lunch buddies? Your cigarette break buddies, and I'd lay ya odds even your dinner guests at some point. I suggest, to deaf ears I know, that we separate and become a union again. If our future is to walk down I-29 then so be it, but do it standing up and not on your knees.

Is there a place on your option sheet that reads : Leave with union integrity intact.

[post="203286"][/post]​

Why do you think that there are these joint committees?

Continue to support of those you have in the most recent past and maybe, just maybe you will finally see that there is no difference between the two.

Although after today, it would seem that Local 514 could possibly seek a different path.

 

[Drippy Quill]

Is this where you tell me Buck that AMFA is my only hope?...HAHAHA!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Well it looks like some of the TWA/TWU guys are starting to see the picture.

However they blame the membership and seem to be leaving the leadership unaccountable here.

I attended the first integration meeting in Nashsville. The International did not provide any leadership whatsoever nor did they have TWA representatives present until after the assembly had made their discussions and decided which way to go. So when points were brought up about how it was going to affect incumbant TWU members there was no balancing arguement from representatives from the IAM. The IAM was kept waiting outside while the discussions went on.

The IAM was allowed to briefly speak to the assembly but not allowed to participate in the debate.

There was only one President that argued in favor of giving TWA full seniority, and he kept it confined to his members, who were TWU at TWA.

The whole thing was a typical TWU move, a shift of blame. "Blame the members". We know that the TWU leadership could have made the decision without membership input as they have so many times in the past. The International did not make any appeal whatsoever on your behalf to the members. Next time Gless, Yingst or Little are down there spreading their bull ask them what they said in your behalf at the meetings. Ask them if they appealed to the members to not let self interest be the sole determining factor in how they vote on the TWA seniority issue. Ask them why they did not offer to let your representatives go to each local so that when the issue was voted on that at least all sides were heard.

The fact is that if you were here, looking at a company that had been shrinking for twenty years, where the average seniority was 15 years higher than the average seniority at your workplace, do you think the members, given the opportunity to choose, especially without any real debate, would have chosen differently? Do you really expect us to believe that you would say, sure, take my vacation, take my shift, in fact take my job, I'll go out on the street for you because of the sacrifices you made in order to make the owners of another company rich?

If you do ask Gless, Yingst or Little and they respond that "we are a democratic union" and do "what the members want", then ask them what happened in 2003? The membership took a vote in January that said NO to concessions. Then two months later the TWU built up a case in favor of concessions, taking other BK cases out of context and using them as examples of what they claimed "would" happen to us in BK. Ask them why in one case (concessions for the company)did the TWU make arguements in order to change the memberships mind but in the other stay completely silent(TWA Integration)?

The fact is there are leaders for a reason. With leadership comes responsibility. Whatever the outcome, the leadership is responsible. The fact that they remained silent, and did not allow any of your representatives take any real meaningful part in the discussions makes the leadership responsible for the outcome of the vote.

 

[Drippy Quill]

Do you really expect us to believe that you would say, sure, take my vacation, take my shift, in fact take my job, I'll go out on the street for you because of the sacrifices you made in order to make the owners of another company rich?

No Bob, after hearing/reading all of your (TWU/AA) rhetoric, I would not expect you, or your fellow members, to do anything other than what you did.

And you want me to believe that had we been dovetailed ( you know, the union way), then there would have been a furlough, how sweet.

 

[Bob Owens]

And you want me to believe that had we been dovetailed ( you know, the union way), then there would have been a furlough, how sweet.

[post="203349"][/post]​

What are you saying? That if we had dovetailed you that the gods of labor would have looked kindly upon us and made the airline market fertile and there would have been no furloughs?

 

[Drippy Quill]

What are you saying? That if we had dovetailed you that the gods of labor would have looked kindly upon us and made the airline market fertile and there would have been no furloughs?

[post="203352"][/post]​

Ermmmm....I thought you were the god of labor...you tell me.