AWA ALPA Thread 9/28 to 10/05

[P51Pilot]

Now quite frankly this topic is old and stale. The arb case is over and not amount of crying and moaning is ever going to change that! Not the federal courts not the stte courts and certainly not usapa, IT'S OVER!!!! Move on...

What? Sorry to inform you it's not over by a longshot and no one is moving on, at least on the West. Enjoy the stagnation!

From the lips of Parker;

The following is from a video tape of CEO Doug Parker on February 6, 2007 speaking to a three year America West Pilot complaining about post merger stagnation: if we didn’t do the merger with US Airways, you’d be in a lot worse position. Frankly, I think as a three year F/O, you wouldn’t have a job.

 

[AWA320]

What? Sorry to inform you it's not over by a longshot and no one is moving on, at least on the West. Enjoy the stagnation!

From the lips of Parker;

The following is from a video tape of CEO Doug Parker on February 6, 2007 speaking to a three year America West Pilot complaining about post merger stagnation: if we didn’t do the merger with US Airways, you’d be in a lot worse position. Frankly, I think as a three year F/O, you wouldn’t have a job.

To that nonsense I offer this, check the SEC filings for AWA at that time then go check the same for AAA!! I rest my case on that issue. Now learn from us P51 if you can. Parker has often said things to manage expectations and folks like yourself are pirme targets that gobble up every once of his words.

This thing is over and the fat lady is just about to take the stage, mark my words, it's over...

 

[exB717Flyer]

If I put on those shoes....I think that AWA/aaa fences were the way to go. Simply put if i were the judge I would have protected/advanced each pilot group going forward as if they were still separate for as long as bottom pilot on roster (including furlough) were included to retirement.

That's a reasonable integration strategy but for one flaw: reduction in force (furloughs). Would you not agree that a fair integration should not only share in future growth but share the pain of furloughs as well? Fences don't stop furloughs from coming from the bottom. Your suggestion makes around half the AWA seniority list your furlough fodder. The Nicolau Award means all active pilots as of the snapshot date would share in a RIF.

 

[AWA320]

That's a reasonable integration strategy but for one flaw: reduction in force (furloughs). Would you not agree that a fair integration should not only share in future growth but share the pain of furloughs as well? Fences don't stop furloughs from coming from the bottom. Your suggestion makes around half the AWA seniority list your furlough fodder. The Nicolau Award means all active pilots as of the snapshot date would share in a RIF.

That's just it they don't want to share they want it all and if furloughs happen then the AWA pilots should absorb not some but ALL of the furloughs before the royal AAA pilots do!! GMAFB PLEASE!!! Fair??? what do they on the east know as fair??

 

[P51Pilot]

That's just it they don't want to share they want it all and if furloughs happen then the AWA pilots should absorb not some but ALL of the furloughs before the royal AAA pilots do!! GMAFB PLEASE!!! Fair??? what do they on the east know as fair??

Along with the fence there could easily be a condition on where the furloughs occur in regards to which side of the fence sees the removal of flying.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Along with the fence there could easily be a condition on where the furloughs occur in regards to which side of the fence sees the removal of flying.

This is not workable. There's NEVER been a union carrier that allowed furloughs in anything other than reverse-seniority order. NEVER!

 

[P51Pilot]

This is not workable. There's NEVER been a union carrier that allowed furloughs in anything other than reverse-seniority order. NEVER!

Well then separate operations for the next few years, a new union, and an ongoing war between pilot groups. I guess we should all quit waisting bandwidth and just do'er.

 

[Phoenix]

...The "transfer of captain years" baloney your MEC keeps touting in fact assumes that each and every AWA pilot WILL bid the first upgrade they can hold, wherever that may be.

Seniority is never a discussion of what people may or may not actually do with their seniority. Seniority is nothing more than a list providing a senior pilot with preference over a pilot junior to him.

When considering what impact might occur with the re-ordering of a seniority list, then one can be reasonably assured that pilots will generally "follow the money". "Follow the money" is a reliable axiom. Assuming much different, of the natural man, would be contrary to reason in the consideration of any other question of life, business, or capital venture. To proffer any other axiom would tend to paint one as having ulterior motives, motives which would likely be shaped by the first axiom, "follow the money".

 

[ClueByFour]

"Follow the money" is a reliable axiom. Assuming much different, of the natural man, would be contrary to reason in the consideration of any other question of life, business, or capital venture. To proffer any other axiom would tend to paint one as having ulterior motives, motives which would likely be shaped by the first axiom, "follow the money".

You have a former US pilot running around these parts who I believe did not "follow the money" until the very end of his career, where he was then frozen into place/equipment making the big bucks for only the last 6 months.

A quick look at the US-East seniority list seems to indicate that there are a goodly number of individuals who don't "follow the money."

How else does one explain Airbus captains in CLT who could hold a 767 slot in PHL, but remain in CLT? Or guys in PIT who could hold widebodies in CLT or PHL?

Or does the axiom only apply when you are trying to refute Nicolau?

 

[Phoenix]

... refute Nicolau?

Hey slugger. Guess what... all of the bennies that AAA pilots have passed on to have quality of life are being picked up by.... AAA pilots. They are following the money according to their seniority. Each person gets to pick right before the person junior to them. If one reorders the list then the order in which they get to choose is changed.

I didn't mention Nicolau you did. I just mentioned re-ordering the seniority list. Thanks for your conclusion.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Well then separate operations for the next few years, a new union, and an ongoing war between pilot groups.

This "war" is of your choosing. It's officious for you to presume that we should end it for you by conceding.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

By the way, where is our buddy Junebug? I'm really missing being called a pickleballer.

 

[Junebug172]

By the way, where is our buddy Junebug? I'm really missing being called a pickleballer.

I'm back you pickleballer you!!

So what's the hold up over there? CM says you've filed last week, the week before, and soon.

When is it going to happen?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I'm back you pickleballer you!!

So what's the hold up over there? CM says you've filed last week, the week before, and soon.

When is it going to happen?

Hey Junebug, welcome back. I was getting lonely, missing my daily pickleballer diatribe.

Not all off us are like CM. Told you before not to believe him. But what can I say? You people still do. Well, never let it be said I didn't warn you.

Soon, real soon.

 

[traderjake]

Mr United Spin Master

I love to fish.

It is fun to relax and wait for the hit.

When you go fishing with no bait and you get them to take hook, line and sinker.


Now that is a mastered art of fishing

CHEERS

The sun rose this morning.

Are you taking credit for that too because you watched it come up?

Talk about delusions of grandeur.