ATTENTION RESERVE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS (and BH's too...)

[beachboy]

Let the furloughs begin! LOL You people are so short sighted. You are not factoring in how things are done NOW vs how they may be done with those trips. Hit the streets folk!

 

[theFLYonthewall]

Let the furloughs begin! LOL You people are so short sighted. You are not factoring in how things are done NOW vs how they may be done with those trips. Hit the streets folk!

No kidding! Yep we will have more hard time trips. Buh-bye claim, yes we will have better duty rigs but they will not be building trips with much claim time. You will be doing 28 hour 4 days, with 28 hours of it hard time. In the good old days we did 28 hour 4 days with 5 hours of claim. The trips built for the flight attendants will be productive, yes you will work less days trips will pay more time. That will equate to less people needed. You will need all those days off to recoop from those 28 hour hard time trips. Imagine 28 hours of hard time on an E-190-NO THANKS.

 

[aptboeses]

For me the name of the game is more productive f/a's. It benefits the f/a's by providing higher time trips and it benefits the company by utilizing it's assets better. It's a no brainer that this will mean less f/a staffing in general. Though by the time we actually vote on a contract and it becomes effective we probably won't be that overstaffed. We can always offer more leaves as needed too. Every time it's offered now it's oversubscribed.

I personally would love to have high time trips. Though I don't want ALL trips to be high time trips either. It's a fine line but if we negotiate limitations correctly we shouldn't have much of a problem.

I've also worked paired with the pilots and without. Honestly there isn't much difference. They're still locked behind a door for most of the flight. CRM doesn't come into play for me because flight attendants and pilots are aviation professionals and should act accordingly. If you can't be a professional and do everything that your job entails then you should probably find another job.

 

[HottootrotNyc]

No kidding! Yep we will have more hard time trips. Buh-bye claim, yes we will have better duty rigs but they will not be building trips with much claim time. You will be doing 28 hour 4 days, with 28 hours of it hard time. In the good old days we did 28 hour 4 days with 5 hours of claim. The trips built for the flight attendants will be productive, yes you will work less days trips will pay more time. That will equate to less people needed. You will need all those days off to recoop from those 28 hour hard time trips. Imagine 28 hours of hard time on an E-190-NO THANKS.

Why didn't the company need less people then? The company was hiring during the good ole days weren't they? It seems now the company is stagnent and by having the f/a's actually work instead of getting claim hours, the company would be saving money, allowing the f/a's to have better pay and more flexibility, and expand.

 

[beachboy]

Are you not listening? We had min days of 5 hours and have had decent rips rigs! Those trips paid 28 hours but we didn't fly 28 hours! You are failing to grasp simple math. If someone is actually flying all those hours now working like a pack mule, you don't need as many people.

 

[theFLYonthewall]

Why didn't the company need less people then? The company was hiring during the good ole days weren't they? It seems now the company is stagnent and by having the f/a's actually work instead of getting claim hours, the company would be saving money, allowing the f/a's to have better pay and more flexibility, and expand.

The company didn't need less people then because our trip rigs were 1 for 3. So a 4 day trip with a time away from base of 80 hours would be pay and credit of 26.51 hours, because the trip is build legally to match the pilots legalities (of course our trip rig was better). In today's world our trip rig is 1 for 3.5 so that 80 hour trip is pay and credit at 22.51 built at the pilots legalities. The difference is the amount of soft time vs. hard time. If you take the pilots out of the picture the company will build our trips at the 26.51 hard time because they can. Its very hard to try to explain this, maybe someone from the East that gets it can chime in. If the company can build our trips without the pilots we will NOT need as many flight attendants on the property. Yes we will work one or two less days a month because our trips will be worth more HARD time. For example if you fly 90 hours in 18 days now (but 10 of that might be free money because its claim). Now you will fly that same 90 in 16 days but you will have worked that 10 hours. If 9 flight attendants all work that 10 hours of additional hard time, you have taken a 90 hour month away from another flight attendant-making sense?

 

[flybynite]

I think you explained it pretty well.

We'll see how they feel about that transcon turn around when they get into LAX expecting to have a nice layover when scheduling calls and makes you fly it back because the inbound f/a's are too delayed out of PHL. Pilots go to the hotel...you get the shaft.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Are you not listening? We had min days of 5 hours and have had decent rips rigs! Those trips paid 28 hours but we didn't fly 28 hours! You are failing to grasp simple math. If someone is actually flying all those hours now working like a pack mule, you don't need as many people.

Well until...... the first of the month when scheduling runs out of crews, PHL gets hammered with weather, a Nor Easter hit the Atlantic seaboard during the holidays, locust swarm the HQ in PHX.

We are out of crews now.....because the so-called "MANAGERS" are not MANAGING their assets correctly, they are simply relying on a algorithm program that tell them what to do while they twitter away in PHX.

Split the F/As from the pilots with or without "protections" - and let the games begin.

BOHICA :blink:

 

[theFLYonthewall]

Well until...... the first of the month when scheduling runs out of crews, PHL gets hammered with weather, a Nor Easter hit the Atlantic seaboard during the holidays, locust swarm the HQ in PHX.

We are out of crews now.....because the so-called "MANAGERS" are not MANAGING their assets correctly, they are simply relying on a algorithm program that tell them what to do while they twitter away in PHX.

Split the F/As from the pilots with or without "protections" - and let the games begin.

BOHICA :blink:

Hopefully you are not in the bottom 10-15% of the seniority list because if you are, you could very well end up furloughed. Seperating from the pilots with or without protections is NOT a good move on behalf of the flight attendants. Even with protections this company will violate the contract every opportunity they can, and tell you to grieve it. What good does that do you when you are on an airplane full of people waiting for pilots that will not be in for 3 more hours, which by that time you should of been fast alseep in your hotel room or on your way home. Add to the fact that most flight attendants do not know or understand our current contract language and legalities. Can you imagine the battles on the plane between flight attendants arguing over this?

I for one will NOT support a tenative agreement with split crew language, I do not care how much money they dangle in front of me. The price we will pay long term is not worth the dollar amount this company will attach to it.

 

[Travelpro72]

If we split from the pilots why couldn't we negotiate language to protect flight attendants from contractual violations? Ramifications that would deter scheduling from such crap? I understand the fear of splitting but it doesn't have to be complete doom and gloom. Our contract we currently work under WITH the pilots is violated left, right and sideways. If you are worried about those hard time 4days then negotiate provisions in as to how many per base you can have. Negotiate how many transcon turns can be built and duty day limitations. It doesn't have to be "stick with the pilots or bust". It just doesn't. People who don't want to split from the pilots have no CLEAR answer as to what the flight attendant group should do in the meantime. How has staying together worked for us all so far? Please.

 

[Iheartflying]

I for one will not vote for a contract that seperates us from the pilots. Even if strict language is put in the contract they will violate it. Ok so I grieve it and that process takes months...how does that help me in the instant that my contract is being violated? I basically have to do what scheduling says with no real recourse. No thanks, I think I'll pass.
I also don't think many of the blockholders on the lower end of BH status would want to let go of that...If people get furloughed someone has to replace them on the bottom. Let's see how many of them want to go back to being schedulings b1tch.

 

[Travelpro72]

When they violate your contract today what do you do? I'm just sayin'. Do you or anybody else on here have a solution of sorts to get around the "me too" issue and get our contract done since the pilots won't see a contract for 1000 years?

 

[700UW]

You cant force the company to give you a contract, but you can change your leadership at the union, seems to me that is where you need to start. District 141 of the IAM represents the fleet service workers at US and they were not happy with the District and its officers and got them voted out of office and new leadership in place.

 

[Itestwell]

Let the furloughs begin! LOL You people are so short sighted. You are not factoring in how things are done NOW vs how they may be done with those trips. Hit the streets folk!

What? Re-read the posts here: the fact that productivity enhancements will require less bodies has been discussed by me ad nauseum: you're not any more "in the know" here than the rest of us are. Whose to say that Voluntary Furlough programs won't be offered, and accepted? Again, everyone is making their decision out of the fear of the unknown, which is what flight attendants do best. PHX is out to get us.

Tell me, beachboy, are you 100% sure that you want to sit around here, flying 1+30 hour split trips for working all day, sitting LTO reserve, having 19 hour, non productive 4 days and 14 hour 3 days on the trip sheets until about 2015 when the pilots reach some sort of agreement? Yah, those pilots protect us alright. Are you looking forward to getting paid for half your deadhead when ALL the reserves do in the winter is deadhead on their 1+30 hour split trips that take them all day to work? You and I both know that the pilots aren't going to sign a contract that ratifies until the majority of the East pilots have retired, and the West is finally the majority. Believe it. Every East pilot I talk to now is perfectly happy voting every contract proposal down, even with pay raises, as long as it preserves their seniority for their remaining years before retirement. Get real.

Just make sure you are ready to sit here, for years to come, all winter, collecting your paltry guarantee, fighting with an AFA whose hands are tied by the pilots. All in the name of 'preserving' jobs, but not preserving a life for any reserve on this system.

 

[Itestwell]

No kidding! Yep we will have more hard time trips.

Yup, that's the point. Hard time, productive, high time trips. Just like most every airline has.

Buh-bye claim, yes we will have better duty rigs but they will not be building trips with much claim time. You will be doing 28 hour 4 days, with 28 hours of it hard time.

So? If I pick up a 28 hour 4 day trip, why shouldn't I have to work 28 hours? That's only about 7 hours of flight time per day on a 4 day. So PHL- LAX- PHX. Big deal. Afraid of too many legs per day? Put provisions in the contract that limits the amount of legs per duty day. (To me, a limit of 4 legs per day would be fair.)

Again, I don't care about claim time; I want high time, productive trips. I am not afraid of working what I am being paid for. What I don't like is getting paid for a 20 hour 4 day, actually flying 18 hours, and having 2 ridiculously long layovers where I could be working more, with different pilots, and could potentially be paid 25-29 hours. How many 20-25 hour overnights do I need to sit in that dump Sweaty Palms for? Gimme a break.

In the good old days we did 28 hour 4 days with 5 hours of claim.

In the good old days, your hourly pay per flight hour was more than it is today. :blink: If you wait for a contract for the pilots, you'll be waiting a little longer than 2011. And, I'll say it again, how well did your pilots protect you with your former duty rigs? Blame ALPA, blame Canada, blame whomever, the pilots did nothing to protect you from losing great rigs. Even in the "good old days".

The trips built for the flight attendants will be productive, yes you will work less days trips will pay more time.

Perfect. Exactly what we are here to do. Work.. Not sit around hotels for 25 hours. I think the majority of flight attendants would like to make their time, whatever that may be for them, in less days.

That will equate to less people needed.

Been addressed about 50 times.

You will need all those days off to recoop from those 28 hour hard time trips. Imagine 28 hours of hard time on an E-190-NO THANKS.

You will be flying less days, so you will have plenty of time for your "recoop". Again, most every other airline is split from the almighty protectors (pilots), and they are not dropping dead from exhaustion and illness.