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At least you in BOS have trips that pay something! I just want to get rid of 19 hour 4 days, and 10 hour one days. If I am here, work me! Build the FA lines more productively; add a leg on each day and pay me 14 hours instead of 10! So my layover goes to 17 hours from 21 hours. And?? I am here to work, not sit in Terrible's "Resort"
! Imagine a world where we could fly our time in less than 15 days? That world was called the 80's/ early 90's, and it was good!
flybynite
Veteran
I for one have no desire to split from the pilots. I prefer working one aircraft type during a trip and getting to know my flying parters. CRM please.
What I would like is better rigs and longer minimum rest requirements. No more 9:15 block to block. How about my rest begins when I get to the hotel and no shorter than 12:00? That would be civilized.
What I would like is better rigs and longer minimum rest requirements. No more 9:15 block to block. How about my rest begins when I get to the hotel and no shorter than 12:00? That would be civilized.
galley princess
Senior
- Nov 4, 2007
- 384
- 263
Well, I prefer to be paired with the pilots, but I'm willing to change.
However, I want to see some If-Thens put in a contract with this big of a concession. AWA management thinks nothing of violating an existing contract and blithely responds "so grieve it." That does NOTHING for the FA being screwed.
If you violate THEN the FA gets paid not to fly. Whatever.
If they violate they get fined. Like that one.
I WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYTHING THAT DOES NOT PROTECT ME FROM THIS BREED OF MANAGEMENT. THIS BETTER WEAR IRON UNDERWEAR.
However, I want to see some If-Thens put in a contract with this big of a concession. AWA management thinks nothing of violating an existing contract and blithely responds "so grieve it." That does NOTHING for the FA being screwed.
If you violate THEN the FA gets paid not to fly. Whatever.
If they violate they get fined. Like that one.
I WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYTHING THAT DOES NOT PROTECT ME FROM THIS BREED OF MANAGEMENT. THIS BETTER WEAR IRON UNDERWEAR.
beachboy
Veteran
- Jul 7, 2006
- 1,484
- 48
Galley- I am with you! And when they violate a RSV at any point then they are released pending the claim! I can't tell you how many times they have skipped me or screwed up and then say SORRY, file a claim. Then, I get a 5am call and fly it back. No, you screw up I am released pending claim. Other than that NO VOTE
Travelpro72
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2005
- 4,964
- 455
I'm liking the idea of that. Absolutely....scheduling violates your contract there should be no more "grieve it" and have to fly or get a jackass 5am call. You should be released from the trip pending investigation like mentioned. LOVE IT. I have been screwed over so many times I feel like US's hooker.
galley princess
Senior
- Nov 4, 2007
- 384
- 263
LOUD AND CLEAR folks, I'm not kidding about this.
IF--------------------------------THEN.
One of the reasons we're in the hideous mess we're in is that Pref Bid wasn't an IF---THEN. I think of myself as reasonably intelligent but I blew completely by the LTO thing. I just ASSSSSSSSSSSSSumed that it wouldn't be implemented without the whole system changing first. It has been a source of major devastation, both to me personally and others.
I will NEVER make that mistake again.
You want a more flexible flight attendant, then you will pay for it, and no more shenanigans. I want to see money and dis-incentives for company violations. Real disincentives, the kind that hurt too much to perpetuate.
CLEAR?????????
IF--------------------------------THEN.
One of the reasons we're in the hideous mess we're in is that Pref Bid wasn't an IF---THEN. I think of myself as reasonably intelligent but I blew completely by the LTO thing. I just ASSSSSSSSSSSSSumed that it wouldn't be implemented without the whole system changing first. It has been a source of major devastation, both to me personally and others.
I will NEVER make that mistake again.
You want a more flexible flight attendant, then you will pay for it, and no more shenanigans. I want to see money and dis-incentives for company violations. Real disincentives, the kind that hurt too much to perpetuate.
CLEAR?????????
OP
HottootrotNyc
Guest
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #99
Flight Attendants "Tidying" cabins is not exceptable. If they want F/A's to be cabin cleaners, there should be pay involved or I would never touch a thing. No pay, No clean from me! I only respond to money!
OP
HottootrotNyc
Guest
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #100
I for one have no desire to split from the pilots. I prefer working one aircraft type during a trip and getting to know my flying parters. CRM please.
What I would like is better rigs and longer minimum rest requirements. No more 9:15 block to block. How about my rest begins when I get to the hotel and no shorter than 12:00? That would be civilized.
Why would splitting from the Pilots mean you have to fly on different aircraft in one pairing? We most of the time fly one leg with our Pilots and fly the same trip every trip. Also, we have no problem with CRM skills being split from the Pilots. Knowing, what they like to eat, and drink, and how many kids they have has nothing to do with CRM, a good briefing does and I get them with every group of Pilots. Not splitting from the Pilots is old thinking.... Sorry.....
flybynite
Veteran
We used to fly separate trip pairings from our pilots however we've been flying together for more than 20 years. I've flown separate pairings and I don't consider them a picnic. So, sorry I think flying separate pairings is old school.
And yes, we would change aircraft types several times during the trip or during the day. So not only were we having to reorientate ourselves to new flight deck crews we had to reorientate ourselves to a different aircraft type.
The purpose of which was to work the f/a's more because we didn't have the rigs the pilots had. That isn't the case anymore. We fly the same rigs as our pilots so there really isn't any more productivity to be made from the f/a's.
However, the west f/a's don't have the same rigs as their pilots. Their trip rig is only 1 for 4. And I think they can be scheduled for a longer duty day. (someone correct me if I'm wrong) So yes they are split from their pilots. It's not fair that the west f/a's don't get the same rigs as their pilots. Why should the extra productivity land squarely on the f/a's? This is to the benefit of the company not the f/a's. They are working more and not getting paid for it.
Couple this with the fact that we fly heavily in the northeast that is subject to huge flight delays because of weather, ATC, whatever and we really need to keep our crews together to prevent more delays. It was a nightmare in the winter trying to stay on schedule with our crews scattered. Been there, done it and it just didn't work well at all.
By keeping our crews together we have a much smoother operation.
Correct. We will never agree to a contract that does not offer the same rigs as the pilots. As long as the pilots don't negotiate more away.....
h34r: Horrendous. That will change in the new contract, or I can guarantee you the JNC wouldn't even waste their time putting it out for a vote.
Two things here: As long as I am getting paid for it (obviously), I WANT to be more productive than our pilots! I WANT to be able to fly more than 8 hours in a day! I WANT to have the ability to do transcon turns, or 14 hour two days, whatever that may entail. Being saddled to the pilots negates our ability to fly the truly high time trips that many other airlines enjoy, and since I am here to work, I would love the opportunity to have access to those trips.
If this was such a consistent nightmare as you repeatedly say, then please explain how and why most other airlines operate like this. CO and DL, both heavy on the Northeast, have similar OT performances to US. I just don't buy this argument. If our system was so superior, then PHL would never have any crew delays/ problems during thunderstorms or blizzards. Besides, most of our flying up and down the NE corridor, with the exception of some BOS and Florida, is mostly RJ's now, anyway, so no worries... (Did the pilots protect us from THAT???
) Your opinion.
flybynite
Veteran
At Piedmont we did those transcon turns. CLT-SFO-CLT or CLT-LAX-CLT.
And they wiped you out. It wasn't worth it to me then and it wouldn't be worth the fatigue now and I'm a whole lot older now too.
Nor am I interested in trying to get all my flying time in the first 2 wks of the month so I can take off the rest. I live in CLT and I prefer stretching my time out over the month. For me, I'm better rested.
But I understand that some people such as yourself would like to have that option. The JNC is looking into it because there is an interest from some of the f/'as. If they go that route, I believe some protections for longer in-base rest requirements are being looked at also. Not sure, might have to ask Mike about that.
And yes these are my opinions and experience.
Think about this. How many f/a's would be furloughed because the company wouldn't need to put a fresh f/a crew on the aircraft for the turn around transcons?
And they wiped you out. It wasn't worth it to me then and it wouldn't be worth the fatigue now and I'm a whole lot older now too.
Nor am I interested in trying to get all my flying time in the first 2 wks of the month so I can take off the rest. I live in CLT and I prefer stretching my time out over the month. For me, I'm better rested.
But I understand that some people such as yourself would like to have that option. The JNC is looking into it because there is an interest from some of the f/'as. If they go that route, I believe some protections for longer in-base rest requirements are being looked at also. Not sure, might have to ask Mike about that.
And yes these are my opinions and experience.
Think about this. How many f/a's would be furloughed because the company wouldn't need to put a fresh f/a crew on the aircraft for the turn around transcons?
At Piedmont we did those transcon turns. CLT-SFO-CLT or CLT-LAX-CLT.
And they wiped you out. It wasn't worth it to me then and it wouldn't be worth the fatigue now and I'm a whole lot older now too.
Nor am I interested in trying to get all my flying time in the first 2 wks of the month so I can take off the rest. I live in CLT and I prefer stretching my time out over the month. For me, I'm better rested.
I wouldn't think you would have to "wipe yourself out" by doing all of your flying in the first two weeks. I am just saying that I would like to fly trips that pay some good time, like they used to, when I come to work. I said nothing about killing myself for 2 weeks...
Even now, the people that fly hard for 2 weeks look wiped out and miserable, so if they continue to do that in the new contract, things would be no different. That's their choice.
True, let me say this again, NONE of this will fly if there are not proper restrictions in place. I would imagine they would even need to place a cap on the percentage of "transcon turns" per base, so as to appease those of us that are here for the pretty layovers.
I've addressed that in many of my earlier rants, and the downsizing that could come could very well affect me. But I ask myself this question: Do I want to sit here, for the rest of my life, flying 2 hour split trips and 10 hour two days, or would I rather the Company make the FA's more productive as a WHOLE, and possibly have a job to come back to (if I were furloughed) that affords me the time off we USED to have, before the rigs were negotiated away? It's a choice, and people will make different choices. Change is never easy, and I have never seen a group so frightened of change as the US FA's.
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