Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[Chuck Schalk]

Now explain how the current CBA is a hindrance to a new CBA.
 
Its called the RLA, and do you understand the negotiations are controlled by the NMB, not the IAM nor US?
 
And they met this week and they are meeting again next week.

exactly the NMB controls the negotiations and they are not the friend of labor. The NMB will drag this out to no where, wait and see.  Month after month of nothing. We watched it first hand.  re-vote after re-vote until they scared enough people into accepting an industry leading TWU  concessionary deal.
 
The TWU and AA used jobs as a fear factor to vote yes
 
The IAM and US Air will use the pension as the fear factor 

 

[exs]

exactly the NMB controls the negotiations and they are not the friend of labor. The NMB will drag this out to no where, wait and see.  Month after month of nothing. We watched it first hand.  re-vote after re-vote until they scared enough people into accepting an industry leading TWU  concessionary deal.
 
The TWU and AA used jobs as a fear factor to vote yes
 
The IAM and US Air will use the pension as the fear factor

May I ask what kind of pension we are talking about? Money wise that is?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

May I ask what kind of pension we are talking about? Money wise that is?

I can only say what I have been told.  The company contributes 2 dollars per hour to the IAM pension fund. 2 dollars an hour X 40 hours = 80 dollars per week x 52 weeks = $4,160 dollars per year.
The IAM promises to invest that money and fund pensions at a multiplier of $85 dollars.
 
At AA we get matching 5.5% (inlcudes overtime)
 
$80,000 dollars X 5.5% = $4,400 per year 

 

[Overspeed]

You are wrong, the IAM M&R at US had their pension from the time they worked till January of 2005.
 
In 2008 they negotiated the IAMNPF and were vested immediately, so from 2008, now and going forward they have an $84 a month multiplier and are asking for $100 in negotiations right now.
 
So you are wrong and lying.
 
And they have been recalling mechanics and stock clerks for several years and have even hired mechanics off the street.
 
And have better scope, sick time, overtime, vacation and many other things.

 
Not wrong. The pension you had prior to the BK you were not able to earn years credited service. You have a NEW plan, while we continued to accrue additional years in our existing plan up until 2012. From what I am hearing from you and others is that BK is awesome and everyone did better than the TWU during the same period. The people that retired with their original pension plan and retiree medical during the period up to 2012 would say otherwise. But if it makes you feel good to call me a liar by all means do so.
 
AA had recalled and hiring AMTs as well up until the BK.
 
I am quoting what Lomardo stated about the US/IAM contract being inferior to the AA/TWU CBA. Is he lying?

 

[Overspeed]

 
 
Don,  When are you coming back to the floor?  Word is that you're gonna try parlay your ailments into some sort of medical retirement.  C'mon back, the guys have a lot of questions for you.

 
You should call him. I don't know I heard that he was out for medical reasons just like you.

 

[Overspeed]

You're right that airplanes in the desert don't need overhauls, and when they don't have as many planes that need to be overhauled our ratio will look more and more like other legacies, but our workrules, shift pay, Vacations, Holidays, sick time and Benefits wont. As far as being misinformed it appears that you have confirmed what I did say, not what you try and claim I said, my statement was in response to where you said that we had a higher ratio of mechanics per airplane, I said that the old planes were what was driving that ratio, not our contract. What's the matter cant debate the issue so you make up statements?
 
Religion? I don't expect a captive audience to stand while I pray nor do I expect them to listen to me pray when I'm working or at a business meeting. Saying I was brought up Catholic and how that affects my thought process is not the same as holding up business on a daily basis while subjecting everyone to something out of Talledega nights. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuAUI_0knfk

Please explain why we had to pay $69 million for each 1% of the new company and the pilots only had to pay $23 million. Why did we have to give triple the "concessions vs equity"? You advocated for this, were you aware of it?

 
By George you got it! The maintenance spend is higher on older aircraft which drives more AMTs in-house! I knew you would connect the dots!!! You do live close to Wall Street so you are a financial wiz.
 
You obviously feel you have the answer so dazzle us with your methodology of why we paid what you think we did.
 
Oh BTW, I still love that TWU clause that protected our wages and keep us industry standard without your representation. You are right, we still have to live with the results of Don's work...I'm happy about that considering I have to live with the results of your work. Voting no on a contract that would have paid me $38 and hour four years ago. Thanks Bob for that. You are swell!

 

[700UW]

The multiplier right now is $84 a month and the IAM is asking for $100 a month in negotiations.
 
And yes the IAM/US CBA Is great in every area except you earn just a bit more than US.
 
How many times does it have to be explained to you?

 

[737823]

Asking for means nothing, this is the IAM we are talking about. Even if you get $100 it's still impossible to live off. And just wait til Buffy goes behind the memberships back and signs away their pension like he did at Boeing.

Josh

 

[Bob Owens]

You obviously feel you have the answer so dazzle us with your methodology of why we paid what you think we did.

So in other words you cant answer why you advocating voting yes on a deal where we ended up paying triple the price for equity than the pilots. The other question was were you aware of that when you voted YES? Well where you?

Didn't you claim a while back that the pilots gained nothing by rejecting the contract and risking abrogation? Apparently they did. If, as was claimed, our equity came out to around a years worth of concessions then the pilots got back more than three years worth of concessions with the equity. So over the six year term, including the offset for equity, our concessions will cost us collectively $1 billion 650 million dollars but the pilots concessions will cost them less than $950 million, so in other words we gave up nearly twice as much as the pilots. We gave more than any other group including non-union and within the TWU the mechanics gave up more than any other group in the TWU, and you voted for that. The pilots held out and ended up getting nearly triple the Equity we got for a lower ask. ($330 vs. $315).    
 
Don and the Lawyer Mark Richard lied to the committees, in order to cause panic and get the committees to accept the deals they claimed that if the court abrogates we can not strike, that we would lose check-off, that we have no contract and the company can do anything they want. That was a lie .
 

 

[700UW]

Asking for means nothing, this is the IAM we are talking about. Even if you get $100 it's still impossible to live off. And just wait til Buffy goes behind the memberships back and signs away their pension like he did at Boeing.

Josh

You really have issues with lying.
 
He didnt go behind anyone's back, the members voted on a new TA at Boeing.
 
Why do you lie?
 
And the pension is better than a 401k.

 

[blue collar]

Get used to it. That's his specialty.

How many Holidays do you get again, and what is the rate?
Do you get doubletime after 12 hours?
How much sick time do you get?
Do you lose half pay for the first two days you call in sick for each occurrence?
What are your shift premiums?
Do you have any sort of defined job security?
Do you have a defined job set?

1- 10 holidays. Paid at straight time, plus 8 hours (or 10 depending on shift) that you can have paid for the holiday or bank for a comp day.
2- no, double time only on 2nd rdo (and 3rd for 4/10s), if you worked 1st rdo.
3- 80 hours sick/year
4- yes, 1/2 pay for first 3 days of each occurrence - unless you spend overnight in the hospital, then it's at 100%.
5- can't remember exact number- I think it was .51 for afternoons and .58 for midnights
6- not sure exactly what you're looking for- but there are defined bumping/filling of vacancies, and a defined min number of line stations- as well as min headcount for base mx.
7- there are defined jobs/classifications. Doesn't mean too much since they can have you work in a lower classification though (with no loss of pay)

 

[blue collar]

And the pension is better than a 401k.

Source?

 

[1AA]

Source?

Source, 700UW 
 
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57088-article-4-industry-comparable-pay-rate/?p=1083972
 
Is this good enough? "Don't let the facts get in the way." 

 

[blue collar]

I can only say what I have been told.  The company contributes 2 dollars per hour to the IAM pension fund. 2 dollars an hour X 40 hours = 80 dollars per week x 52 weeks = $4,160 dollars per year.
The IAM promises to invest that money and fund pensions at a multiplier of $85 dollars.
 
At AA we get matching 5.5% (inlcudes overtime)
 
$80,000 dollars X 5.5% = $4,400 per year 

Yeah, the company will contribute $2/hr up to 2080 hrs/year. They don't contribute that money for OT or extra shifts worked. If you work 8hrs OT/week, then your $2/hr is more like $1.67/hr - whereas with a matching 401k, the company is contributing for every hour worked - including all the 1.5 time and 2.0 time worked.

 

[1AA]

Yeah, the company will contribute $2/hr up to 2080 hrs/year. They don't contribute that money for OT or extra shifts worked. If you work 8hrs OT/week, then your $2/hr is more like $1.67/hr - whereas with a matching 401k, the company is contributing for every hour worked - including all the 1.5 time and 2.0 time worked.

Chuck and Blue Collar, are those the facts?
 
I wont let the facts get in my way.