Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[TWU informer]

The Best reason for ALL AMT's to get themselves into one union.
 
Are you not tired of being used against each other in negotiations where the ALL-IN rate is impossible to calculate?
 
Everybody get in one union and those financial complications will cease.

 

[Overspeed]

So in other words you cant answer why you advocating voting yes on a deal where we ended up paying triple the price for equity than the pilots. The other question was were you aware of that when you voted YES? Well where you?

Didn't you claim a while back that the pilots gained nothing by rejecting the contract and risking abrogation? Apparently they did. If, as was claimed, our equity came out to around a years worth of concessions then the pilots got back more than three years worth of concessions with the equity. So over the six year term, including the offset for equity, our concessions will cost us collectively $1 billion 650 million dollars but the pilots concessions will cost them less than $950 million, so in other words we gave up nearly twice as much as the pilots. We gave more than any other group including non-union and within the TWU the mechanics gave up more than any other group in the TWU, and you voted for that. The pilots held out and ended up getting nearly triple the Equity we got for a lower ask. ($330 vs. $315).    
 
Don and the Lawyer Mark Richard lied to the committees, in order to cause panic and get the committees to accept the deals they claimed that if the court abrogates we can not strike, that we would lose check-off, that we have no contract and the company can do anything they want. That was a lie .
 

 
The equity claim is based off of what each creditor was losing in BK. Didn't the pilots lose their lump sum option? Yes. Isn't that worth more than our DBP? Yes.
 
The company got everything they wanted in BK in their ask. Only the unlimted layoffs and code sharing came off the term sheet. You are wrong again Bob. The APA "gained" only those two things. So if we had risked abrogation you personally would have gained big with overhaul losing any limitations on outsourcing. Why? Because industry standard is about 50% not the 35% the TWU got in the language. You would have been able to shed the overhaul group you care so little about. It's all about the size of your paycheck Bob even if it is at the expense of someone else's.

 

[Overspeed]

Yeah, the company will contribute $2/hr up to 2080 hrs/year. They don't contribute that money for OT or extra shifts worked. If you work 8hrs OT/week, then your $2/hr is more like $1.67/hr - whereas with a matching 401k, the company is contributing for every hour worked - including all the 1.5 time and 2.0 time worked.

 
http://mypension.iamnpf.org/

 

[blue collar]

 
http://mypension.iamnpf.org/

What about it?

 

[swamt]

I can only say what I have been told.  The company contributes 2 dollars per hour to the IAM pension fund. 2 dollars an hour X 40 hours = 80 dollars per week x 52 weeks = $4,160 dollars per year.
The IAM promises to invest that money and fund pensions at a multiplier of $85 dollars.
 
At AA we get matching 5.5% (inlcudes overtime)
 
$80,000 dollars X 5.5% = $4,400 per year 

So since it is a matched contribution, would it not be a total of 8,800.00 for total yearly contribution?

 

[swamt]

I think you guys would be much better off with the 401K matched for retirement contributions.   With our 401K matched and our PS I have a little over 25% total going to retirement, which is right around 25K per year.  This is why I suggest the 401, it's easier to nego the percentage than it is the multiplier, as US has to pay that no matter they made profit or not.  

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Please note that the Trustees are committed to keeping the Plan in the Green Zone status under the PPA. If the Plan’s status were to be classified as in the “Yellow Zone,” the Plan would be required to adopt a “Funding Improvement Plan.” If the Plan’s status were to be classified as in the “Red Zone,” the Plan would be required to adopt a “Rehabilitation Plan.” A Funding Improvement Plan or Rehabilitation Plan may involve additional employer contributions and benefit changes. A Rehabilitation Plan may also require removal of certain types of benefits (e.g., early retirement subsidies such as “30-and-Out” or “Age 62 with 20 years” and other, similar corrective actions).
 
so the IAM pension has a provision if the plan has issues later on. It is not bullet proof.  Ask the Teamsters national pension about that.  UPS gave the teamsters 6 billion dollars into the pension fund (2008?)for the company to hand over to the IBT.
 
Note: Not saying they will and i hope not for the members sake but recent history has not been favorable on pensions staying intact or there at all.  Remember the pension is tied to the stock market and rate of return is factored in with the basis the market is positive.

 

[dfw gen]

The equity claim is based off of what each creditor was losing in BK. Didn't the pilots lose their lump sum option? Yes. Isn't that worth more than our DBP? Yes.
 
The company got everything they wanted in BK in their ask. Only the unlimted layoffs and code sharing came off the term sheet. You are wrong again Bob. The APA "gained" only those two things. So if we had risked abrogation you personally would have gained big with overhaul losing any limitations on outsourcing. Why? Because industry standard is about 50% not the 35% the TWU got in the language. You would have been able to shed the overhaul group you care so little about. It's all about the size of your paycheck Bob even if it is at the expense of someone else's.

i think you suffer from low self esteem

 

[Vortilon]

 
The equity claim is based off of what each creditor was losing in BK. Didn't the pilots lose their lump sum option? Yes. Isn't that worth more than our DBP? Yes.
 
The company got everything they wanted in BK in their ask. Only the unlimted layoffs and code sharing came off the term sheet. You are wrong again Bob. The APA "gained" only those two things. So if we had risked abrogation you personally would have gained big with overhaul losing any limitations on outsourcing. Why? Because industry standard is about 50% not the 35% the TWU got in the language. You would have been able to shed the overhaul group you care so little about. It's all about the size of your paycheck Bob even if it is at the expense of someone else's.

 
Nice try overspeed, with the lame guilt trip quip parting shot.  Nobody is buying your BS anymore Don.  The only thing you TWU international types are concerned with is your own hides! 

 

[Overspeed]

 
 
AAR at MSP,  I think not.  You might be confusing MSP with Duluth.  AAR cannot find enough people to staff their Duluth facility as evidenced by the constant aircraft mechanics job openings posted on several airline employment websites.  Get your facts straight!

 
Sorry, you are right the former AMFA represented base is at Duluth. Apparently it is fully staffed with low wage AMTs now. Thanks AMFA.
 
AAR recently completed its 100th Airbus heavy check for the carrier, and plans to open a fourth line this fall to boost capacity. AAR employs 305 in Duluth, and an additional line could add as may as 70 jobs, putting the base’s staff close to where it was when Northwest occupied it.
 
http://aviationweek.com/mro/air-canada-deal-paves-way-aar-duluth-expansion
 

 

[Overspeed]

 
Nice try overspeed, with the lame guilt trip quip parting shot.  Nobody is buying your BS anymore Don.  The only thing you TWU international types are concerned with is your own hides! 

 
It's true. Everyone knows on this blog local 591's feelings about overhaul. It's not a guilt trip, it's a fact.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Sorry, you are right the former AMFA represented base is at Duluth. Apparently it is fully staffed with low wage AMTs now. Thanks AMFA.
 
AAR recently completed its 100th Airbus heavy check for the carrier, and plans to open a fourth line this fall to boost capacity. AAR employs 305 in Duluth, and an additional line could add as may as 70 jobs, putting the base’s staff close to where it was when Northwest occupied it.
 
http://aviationweek.com/mro/air-canada-deal-paves-way-aar-duluth-expansion

So how about you and the TWU organize them and bring all the rest of the AMT's down to their level. That is what you have succeeded in doing at AA.

The AMFA struck over the those jobs and wages and received zero support from pukes like you and the IAM/TWU.

 

[Overspeed]

So how about you and the TWU organize them and bring all the rest of the AMT's down to their level. That is what you have succeeded in doing at AA.

The AMFA struck over the those jobs and wages and received zero support from pukes like you and the IAM/TWU.

 
All of you seem to forget that the comparisons that brought your wages and benefits down are the very contracts/airlines that you claim offer so much more than what you get. AA BK attorneys referenced the outsourcing, benefit cuts, and other work rule changes that gave DL, UA, CO, AS, and WN a distinct cost advantage over AA. That is the arguments they made to the judge. The judge agreed with AA attorneys and granted all but two small tweaks of AA's motion to abrogate the APA agreement. The APFA said they believe their contract would have been abrogated as well.
 
The facts are that the total cost of CBAs at UA, WN, AS, and CO are lower than AA's were prior to BK yet you want those contracts at AA. Well so did AA management. Think about that. You want what AA management wants which is a AMFA or IBT contract at AA. And that's because AA management wants to be nice to you and raise their costs? No. It's because those contracts offer more lattitude to management in outsourcing which is a lot fewer jobs. Overhaul jobs my friend.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
Sorry, you are right the former AMFA represented base is at Duluth. Apparently it is fully staffed with low wage AMTs now. Thanks AMFA.
 
AAR recently completed its 100th Airbus heavy check for the carrier, and plans to open a fourth line this fall to boost capacity. AAR employs 305 in Duluth, and an additional line could add as may as 70 jobs, putting the base’s staff close to where it was when Northwest occupied it.
 
http://aviationweek.com/mro/air-canada-deal-paves-way-aar-duluth-expansion
 

 
 
O/Speed
 
Are you expecting a Thank You from the AFW men/woman now that AA closed that base and TWU members had to leave their homes, families. Did you and the rest of the TWU tell them you were sorry. Or did the TWU just give them the it's part of the business speech? "AA can do that Brother" 
 
As AA cuts down it's O/H facilities due to the new aircraft bought with the concessions negotiated by the TWU. Maybe AAR will say thank you to the TWU, for giving them another place to perform MRO work for AA and any other carrier as they outsource work.
 
What kind of SPIN are you plan on giving us then. Who are you going to blame?
 
Is that going to be because of AMFA as well?

 

[Overspeed]

 
 
O/Speed
 
Are you expecting a Thank You from the AFW men/woman now that AA closed that base and TWU members had to leave their homes, families. Did you and the rest of the TWU tell them you were sorry. Or did the TWU just give them the it's part of the business speech? "AA can do that Brother" 
 
As AA cuts down it's O/H facilities due to the new aircraft bought with the concessions negotiated by the TWU. Maybe AAR will say thank you to the TWU, for giving them another place to perform MRO work for AA and any other carrier as they outsource work.
 
What kind of SPIN are you plan on giving us then. Who are you going to blame?
 
Is that going to be because of AMFA as well?

 
I for one am very disappointed that we were not able to keep those jobs. The TWU did not take their jobs and outsource them. AA management did.
 
The good thing about the outsourcing language is that new aircraft cost less to maintain, true? So then 35% of a smaller budget is less work outsourced. As the new aircraft get old, well then more work will come back in-house. Yes AAR may get some new work but more will be done in-house than outside. More than UA, more than AS, more than DL, and more than WN.
 
Not blaming AMFA I am just saying if the claim is AMFA did better than the TWU the facts don't say that. Did they save more jobs and get higher pay at NW? No. Did they stop AS from outsourcing all overhaul at the OAK base? No. Did they prevent further outsourcing and compensation cuts at UA after taking over from the IAM? No. Did they stop expansion of outsourcing provisions at WN after negotiating several contracts after taking over from the IBT? No.
 
AMFA just has not delivered on their promises but you are asking us to give them one more shot at representing another major airline's AMTs. That this time they will do better. AMFA has it all figured out now and they will keep more work in-house than the TWU did and get us more money because this time they are smarter than when they were at NW and UA. Really?