Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[Rogallo]

 
The TWU did not take their jobs and outsource them. AA management did.
 

 
Now that is funny right there!
 
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delusional

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
I for one am very disappointed that we were not able to keep those jobs. The TWU did not take their jobs and outsource them. AA management did.
 
The good thing about the outsourcing language is that new aircraft cost less to maintain, true? So then 35% of a smaller budget is less work outsourced. As the new aircraft get old, well then more work will come back in-house. Yes AAR may get some new work but more will be done in-house than outside. More than UA, more than AS, more than DL, and more than WN.
 
Not blaming AMFA I am just saying if the claim is AMFA did better than the TWU the facts don't say that. Did they save more jobs and get higher pay at NW? No. Did they stop AS from outsourcing all overhaul at the OAK base? No. Did they prevent further outsourcing and compensation cuts at UA after taking over from the IAM? No. Did they stop expansion of outsourcing provisions at WN after negotiating several contracts after taking over from the IBT? No.
 
AMFA just has not delivered on their promises but you are asking us to give them one more shot at representing another major airline's AMTs. That this time they will do better. AMFA has it all figured out now and they will keep more work in-house than the TWU did and get us more money because this time they are smarter than when they were at NW and UA. Really?

 
O/S
 
Funny its not the TWU it's was AA mgmt. 
 
And the Mgmt teams at all the other carriers aren't to blame its AMFA's Fault.
 
The TWU has found ways to erode the very career I Loved at one time.
 
Concessions are the way of the TWU, its better to keep the dues coming in and tell the membership we will get them next time.  Jan 1st, 1989 federal law changed vesting from 10 yrs to five why then was it traded to drop the 12yr top of the pay scale to five? 1991 contract.
 
1% over a six yr period during the 1995 contract.
 
No snap back in 2003, because "We the TWU did not feel it was in the best interest of the company at that time".  statement made by Don V. in front of a room full of guys at LAX.
 
The TWU has found ways to keep us living pay check to pay check.
 
We don't come to work for the Glory, it's all about the pay check. Pay checks are supposed to get bigger. That is not an AMFA thing, that is with any employees work group union or not. Companies in the last 25yrs have found ways to get around the unions. Unions want the dues to keep coming in so the fat cats keep their union jobs.
 
All of you TWU supporters say AMFA is just this little mom and pop outfit which does not represent any one. But you are quick to blame the down fall of United/AS/NWA and the outsourcing of work at SWA on this union with NO backing and No affiliation with the almighty AFL-CIO. 
 
Top out pay in 1998 for a AMT all in was $27.$$ now we are at $35.$$, I have been here almost 16 yrs. So tell me just how great your TWU has done for us here.
 
The TWU treated the TWA mechanics fairly as well, 4-10-01. "YES" they got a big pay raise from where they were at but had to go to midnights with T/W off. 
 
What about the Reno guys they were treated well too, right?
 
You call this union a labor group, Its a group of I GOT MINE members. This is what the TWU has taught the membership.
 
It's Time for the TWU to GO AWAY, AMFA may/maynot be the fix all, but it will get rid of leadership of the TWU.
 
It's Time for a change, and if your TWU boys didn't bring in the IBT the last time we would have AMFA now. 
 
We would of had a vote and then you would of seen just how much the membership is sick and tired of the BS.

 

[Realityck]

So how about you and the TWU organize them and bring all the rest of the AMT's down to their level. That is what you have succeeded in doing at AA.

The AMFA struck over the those jobs and wages and received zero support from pukes like you and the IAM/TWU.

 
 
Why didn't the IAM support AMFA at NWA, you've got to be kidding!    
 
 
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]O. V. Delle-Femine [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]National Director Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]67 Water Street Suite 208A Laconia, NH 03246 [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]O. V. Delle-Femine:[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]I am in receipt of your letter dated July 27, 2005, in which you requested that the IAM encourage our members to stand with AMFA. You have acknowledged in your letter that there are philosophical differences between our organizations and memberships.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]I am surprised by your request in that since 1962 AMFA has preached that a Mechanic does not need the assistance of “unskilled” workers such as myself or many of the people I represent. When you urged the nearly 10,000 Northwest Mechanics (at the time) to join your craft organization in 1998 you declared their strength lies in their skill, not in the numbers of the Machinists Union. You must still believe this to be true because as recently as in a July 26, 2005 news article your Assistant National Director Steve MacFarlane said, “Strength in numbers doesn't necessarily mean strength.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]However, now when your organization has the first opportunity in its history to demonstrate this “strength in skill” dogma you preach, you turn to an organization that you have criticized and tried to belittle for more than 40 years, the IAM, for help. It is about time that AMFA recognizes that it cannot win a major labor dispute standing in isolation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]We could recite a litany of issues that have happened since AMFA’s inception that would only distract us from making appropriate decisions as they relate to the situation with Northwest Airlines.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]However, we are concerned and currently investigating the many reports of harassment and intimidation by AMFA members against IAM members. These complaints include, but are not limited to, attacks on our female members in Building B in Minneapolis, property damage, and general harassment in the workplace such as the incidents that have happened in Detroit.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]In addition, AMFA, as an institution, has proposed, and is actively advocating, that Northwest Airlines demand $150,000,000.00 more in concessions than the $107,000,000.00 that Northwest has requested from our membership.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]AMFA negotiators are proud of this proposal and have been actively promoting it to your membership.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]After more than 40 years, your philosophy continues to be that people working in classifications other than the licensed Mechanic should work for less pay so that the licensed Mechanic could be paid more. That philosophy is once again confirmed by AMFA, the institution, by proposing that the so-called unskilled be made to sacrifice more for the benefit of the licensed AMFA member.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Until your July 27th letter, it has been AMFA’s philosophy that the IAM, as an institution, has prevented the Mechanic classification from receiving the wages and benefits that they deserve because we, the IAM, were negotiating too much money for the so-called unskilled classifications, such as Stock Clerk, Equipment Service, Customer Service, Reservations, Clerical, etc. We, therefore, have refrained from any activity that could be construed as interfering with the internal affairs of the AMFA organization, as opposed to your organization’s history of attempting to raid our organization every time we are involved in difficult negotiations. We have, and I reiterate, refrained from any interference in your internal affairs.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]However, in stark contrast, you will remember that in your last round of negotiations, AMFA, the Association, negotiated with Northwest Airlines to rob IAM members of work and ultimately jobs.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]If your letter of July 27, 2005, was an attempt to “heal the wounds” that have been inflicted upon the IAM, our members, and the personal attacks that have been levied against IAM leadership, then we must inform you that mere words will not start the healing process. It is AMFA, the institution’s, deeds that will tell if you are truly serious about healing the wounds. Therefore, we demand:[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]1)            AMFA conduct an investigation into the allegations of intimidation of our members, especially our female members, and upon conclusion of such investigation take whatever action          is necessary under your Constitution and Bylaws to hold those responsible accountable.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]2)            AMFA, as an institution, publicly apologize to IAM members who have been harmed by the AMFA rhetoric.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]3)            AMFA, as an institution, and its negotiators denounce publicly, and withdraw in writing from the negotiation table, its proposal for IAM members to pay more in wage and benefit concessions than the carrier has requested.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]In addition, we need answers to the following questions.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]1)            Does AMFA, the institution, have a strike fund with sufficient assets to protect IAM members?[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]2)            Does the so-called AMFA “back to work agreement” provide for financial support to any IAM member that stands with AMFA?[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]3)            Does AMFA guarantee that no AMFA-represented member will come back to work while IAM members who have stood with AMFA have not been returned to work?[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]4)            Will the AMFA membership be allowed to vote whether or not to accept a contract to strike or will it be an elite few that make that decision?[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]IAM members will not be duped into standing with AMFA. AMFA has never honored an IAM picket line. To represent otherwise, as stated in your July 20th letter to all members on NWA property, is nothing more than an attempt to use trickery and deceit to persuade IAM members to stand with you.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]The IAM is monitoring the situation very closely with ALPA representatives. The Machinists Union takes our moral and legal responsibility to protect our members seriously, and whatever action we recommend will be in the best interests of the Machinists Union membership at Northwest Airlines.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]In your July 27th letter you requested that we encourage our members to stand with AMFA, thereby recognizing that whether or not someone stands with your organization is an individual choice. However, it would be very difficult for any IAM member to stand with your organization knowing full well that if AMFA wins, the IAM members lose, because AMFA, the institution, is fighting for IAM members to pay more in sacrifices than is currently proposed by Northwest Airlines.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Our members can rest assured that whatever action the IAM takes will be in the best interests of its members.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]                                                                                Robert Roach, Jr. GENERAL VICE PRESIDENT[/SIZE]

 

[Overspeed]

 
O/S
 
Funny its not the TWU it's was AA mgmt. 
 
And the Mgmt teams at all the other carriers aren't to blame its AMFA's Fault.
 
The TWU has found ways to erode the very career I Loved at one time.
 
Concessions are the way of the TWU, its better to keep the dues coming in and tell the membership we will get them next time.  Jan 1st, 1989 federal law changed vesting from 10 yrs to five why then was it traded to drop the 12yr top of the pay scale to five? 1991 contract.
 
1% over a six yr period during the 1995 contract.
 
No snap back in 2003, because "We the TWU did not feel it was in the best interest of the company at that time".  statement made by Don V. in front of a room full of guys at LAX.
 
The TWU has found ways to keep us living pay check to pay check.
 
We don't come to work for the Glory, it's all about the pay check. Pay checks are supposed to get bigger. That is not an AMFA thing, that is with any employees work group union or not. Companies in the last 25yrs have found ways to get around the unions. Unions want the dues to keep coming in so the fat cats keep their union jobs.
 
All of you TWU supporters say AMFA is just this little mom and pop outfit which does not represent any one. But you are quick to blame the down fall of United/AS/NWA and the outsourcing of work at SWA on this union with NO backing and No affiliation with the almighty AFL-CIO. 
 
Top out pay in 1998 for a AMT all in was $27.$$ now we are at $35.$$, I have been here almost 16 yrs. So tell me just how great your TWU has done for us here.
 
The TWU treated the TWA mechanics fairly as well, 4-10-01. "YES" they got a big pay raise from where they were at but had to go to midnights with T/W off. 
 
What about the Reno guys they were treated well too, right?
 
You call this union a labor group, Its a group of I GOT MINE members. This is what the TWU has taught the membership.
 
It's Time for the TWU to GO AWAY, AMFA may/maynot be the fix all, but it will get rid of leadership of the TWU.
 
It's Time for a change, and if your TWU boys didn't bring in the IBT the last time we would have AMFA now. 
 
We would of had a vote and then you would of seen just how much the membership is sick and tired of the BS.

 
I did not blame AMFA in my reply. I said they did not do better than the TWU did during the last ten years of relentless assaults on organized labor.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
 
Why didn't the IAM support AMFA at NWA, you've got to be kidding!    
 
 
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]O. V. Delle-Femine [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]National Director Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]67 Water Street Suite 208A Laconia, NH 03246 [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]O. V. Delle-Femine:[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]I am in receipt of your letter dated July 27, 2005, in which you requested that the IAM encourage our members to stand with AMFA. You have acknowledged in your letter that there are philosophical differences between our organizations and memberships.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]I am surprised by your request in that since 1962 AMFA has preached that a Mechanic does not need the assistance of “unskilled” workers such as myself or many of the people I represent. When you urged the nearly 10,000 Northwest Mechanics (at the time) to join your craft organization in 1998 you declared their strength lies in their skill, not in the numbers of the Machinists Union. You must still believe this to be true because as recently as in a July 26, 2005 news article your Assistant National Director Steve MacFarlane said, “Strength in numbers doesn't necessarily mean strength.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]However, now when your organization has the first opportunity in its history to demonstrate this “strength in skill” dogma you preach, you turn to an organization that you have criticized and tried to belittle for more than 40 years, the IAM, for help. It is about time that AMFA recognizes that it cannot win a major labor dispute standing in isolation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]We could recite a litany of issues that have happened since AMFA’s inception that would only distract us from making appropriate decisions as they relate to the situation with Northwest Airlines.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]However, we are concerned and currently investigating the many reports of harassment and intimidation by AMFA members against IAM members. These complaints include, but are not limited to, attacks on our female members in Building B in Minneapolis, property damage, and general harassment in the workplace such as the incidents that have happened in Detroit.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]In addition, AMFA, as an institution, has proposed, and is actively advocating, that Northwest Airlines demand $150,000,000.00 more in concessions than the $107,000,000.00 that Northwest has requested from our membership.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]AMFA negotiators are proud of this proposal and have been actively promoting it to your membership.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]After more than 40 years, your philosophy continues to be that people working in classifications other than the licensed Mechanic should work for less pay so that the licensed Mechanic could be paid more. That philosophy is once again confirmed by AMFA, the institution, by proposing that the so-called unskilled be made to sacrifice more for the benefit of the licensed AMFA member.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Until your July 27th letter, it has been AMFA’s philosophy that the IAM, as an institution, has prevented the Mechanic classification from receiving the wages and benefits that they deserve because we, the IAM, were negotiating too much money for the so-called unskilled classifications, such as Stock Clerk, Equipment Service, Customer Service, Reservations, Clerical, etc. We, therefore, have refrained from any activity that could be construed as interfering with the internal affairs of the AMFA organization, as opposed to your organization’s history of attempting to raid our organization every time we are involved in difficult negotiations. We have, and I reiterate, refrained from any interference in your internal affairs.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]However, in stark contrast, you will remember that in your last round of negotiations, AMFA, the Association, negotiated with Northwest Airlines to rob IAM members of work and ultimately jobs.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]If your letter of July 27, 2005, was an attempt to “heal the wounds” that have been inflicted upon the IAM, our members, and the personal attacks that have been levied against IAM leadership, then we must inform you that mere words will not start the healing process. It is AMFA, the institution’s, deeds that will tell if you are truly serious about healing the wounds. Therefore, we demand:[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]1)            AMFA conduct an investigation into the allegations of intimidation of our members, especially our female members, and upon conclusion of such investigation take whatever action          is necessary under your Constitution and Bylaws to hold those responsible accountable.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]2)            AMFA, as an institution, publicly apologize to IAM members who have been harmed by the AMFA rhetoric.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]3)            AMFA, as an institution, and its negotiators denounce publicly, and withdraw in writing from the negotiation table, its proposal for IAM members to pay more in wage and benefit concessions than the carrier has requested.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]In addition, we need answers to the following questions.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]1)            Does AMFA, the institution, have a strike fund with sufficient assets to protect IAM members?[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]2)            Does the so-called AMFA “back to work agreement” provide for financial support to any IAM member that stands with AMFA?[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]3)            Does AMFA guarantee that no AMFA-represented member will come back to work while IAM members who have stood with AMFA have not been returned to work?[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]4)            Will the AMFA membership be allowed to vote whether or not to accept a contract to strike or will it be an elite few that make that decision?[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]IAM members will not be duped into standing with AMFA. AMFA has never honored an IAM picket line. To represent otherwise, as stated in your July 20th letter to all members on NWA property, is nothing more than an attempt to use trickery and deceit to persuade IAM members to stand with you.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]The IAM is monitoring the situation very closely with ALPA representatives. The Machinists Union takes our moral and legal responsibility to protect our members seriously, and whatever action we recommend will be in the best interests of the Machinists Union membership at Northwest Airlines.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]In your July 27th letter you requested that we encourage our members to stand with AMFA, thereby recognizing that whether or not someone stands with your organization is an individual choice. However, it would be very difficult for any IAM member to stand with your organization knowing full well that if AMFA wins, the IAM members lose, because AMFA, the institution, is fighting for IAM members to pay more in sacrifices than is currently proposed by Northwest Airlines.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Our members can rest assured that whatever action the IAM takes will be in the best interests of its members.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]                                                                                Robert Roach, Jr. GENERAL VICE PRESIDENT[/SIZE]

 
One sided letter do you have the letters from the AMFA?
 
Did O. V. Delle-Fem reply to this?
 
Seems like spilled milk and just another reason why they could scab. The AMFA took dues from the IAM so this was pay back. The mechanics wanted out, tired of the same bs from the IAM. Just as we are tired of the TWU here at AA. It's a grassroots drive done by the employees. AMFA does not have a organizing staff. It's the guys here at AA who for yrs have taken it upon themselves to gather cards, spend their own money as they beat the drums you TWU supporters say we have. 
 
But in the end the tiny little AMFA, killed the airline. come on????
 
The scabs from all the other work groups on the property got the wrath of the NWA Mgmt didn't they?
 
The IAM killed Eastern, then. What plan did they have when we walked?
 
Who got rich then? Not the employees.
 
I did not get a full pay check the whole time I was at Eastern, The company took and took, til we just said no more. Every employee work group was unified. Thats how it was and should be no matter what union each group has. Each work group or class and craft can select the union they want, that is our right. If we fail that will be on us. It should not be the TWU choice.
 
AA gave the TWU our stock equity why? The TWU did away with profit sharing WHY?
The TWU is just as culpable here at AA as AMFA, IBT or the IAM has been throughout history 

 

[Overspeed]

One sided letter do you have the letters from the AMFA?
 
Did O. V. Delle-Fem reply to this?
 
Seems like spilled milk and just another reason why they could scab. The AMFA took dues from the IAM so this was pay back. The mechanics wanted out, tired of the same bs from the IAM. Just as we are tired of the TWU here at AA. It's a grassroots drive done by the employees. AMFA does not have a organizing staff. It's the guys here at AA who for yrs have taken it upon themselves to gather cards, spend their own money as they beat the drums you TWU supporters say we have. 
 
But in the end the tiny little AMFA, killed the airline. come on????
 
The scabs from all the other work groups on the property got the wrath of the NWA Mgmt didn't they?
 
The IAM killed Eastern, then. What plan did they have when we walked?
 
Who got rich then? Not the employees.
 
I did not get a full pay check the whole time I was at Eastern, The company took and took, til we just said no more. Every employee work group was unified. Thats how it was and should be no matter what union each group has. Each work group or class and craft can select the union they want, that is our right. If we fail that will be on us. It should not be the TWU choice.
 
AA gave the TWU our stock equity why? The TWU did away with profit sharing WHY?
The TWU is just as culpable here at AA as AMFA, IBT or the IAM has been throughout history

You say AMFA is the best union but they did nothing but watch NWA do away with their members jobs. You say the IAM was just as bad at EAL. The TWU protected the jobs, earnings, and pension much better than the complete failure of both those unions but some how it is the TWUs fault for destroying the AMT profession. Over 20,000 AMFA airline members lost their jobs in ten years which amounts to more than 80% of their membership and you say AMFA is the best and we should try them at AA. Not!

 

[xUT]

Well, here we go again.

 

[swamt]

YUP, here we go again. The industrial unions are coming out of the wood works just like termites do...

 

[john john]

A mediator has ruled for our dispatchers to compare with UPS.

Mediators can rule in negotiation talks

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

You say AMFA is the best union but they did nothing but watch NWA do away with their members jobs. You say the IAM was just as bad at EAL. The TWU protected the jobs, earnings, and pension much better than the complete failure of both those unions but some how it is the TWUs fault for destroying the AMT profession. Over 20,000 AMFA airline members lost their jobs in ten years which amounts to more than 80% of their membership and you say AMFA is the best and we should try them at AA. Not!

 
O/S
 
The reason I think AMFA is the best for us is that we can remove national officers, separates us from stores/ramp, attend negotiation sessions. None of these can be done with the industrial unions.
 
You blame NWA on AMFA, why didn't the pilots union which is normally the power at any airline save it. The F/A's union as well as the IAM were still on the property, didn't NWA mgmt screw them as well. 
 
I did not say the IAM was as bad as the TWU but it is a big power union with ties to the AFL-CIO and went on strike. You the TWU supporters state that if AMFA was affiliated with the AFL-CIO it would not of happened, due to lobbyists, money. No matter what size the union when a company decides to liquidate, it's gone. CAL - UAL -TWA - EAL all were IAM how many members did they loose along with pensions. How many jobs were out sourced? The difference is that the TWU didn't fight back like the IAM did.
The TWU felt it was better to just bend over, take the concessions, and promise to fight next time. 
 
Unions through out history get to a point that self help is required. No matter what industry it is you have to say enough is enough at some point. With that in mind since AMFA has said that the failure of the carrier get total blame on the members who voted for self help. Just as we the membership voted to take the concessions, if the same rule applies, then the TWU has to take the blame for that. That is the mistake of the TWU, not ever saying we are not taking any more concessions. NO FIGHT.
 
Look at what is going on at UAL, still no contract, no merged labor force. It's been what almost 7 yrs since they brought CAL/UAL together. Both even the same union, IBT.
 
Now we are going to be placed into a merger with US and its pilots are still at odds.
Add in our pilots and we will have a mess. No union wants to loose its members but at some point the members need to decide for them selves.
 
That is what is needed here a vote then we will know if the TWU stays or goes.
 
O/S if you are sooooo sure that the TWU is the right choice then help bring in a vote, let the membership VOTE. Can you do that or is it just about the DUES and the chance that the TWU might end up loosing members you are scared of?
 
 
AMFA at AA in 2014

 

[Bob Owens]

 
The equity claim is based off of what each creditor was losing in BK. Didn't the pilots lose their lump sum option? Yes. Isn't that worth more than our DBP? Yes.
 
The company got everything they wanted in BK in their ask. Only the unlimted layoffs and code sharing came off the term sheet. You are wrong again Bob. The APA "gained" only those two things. So if we had risked abrogation you personally would have gained big with overhaul losing any limitations on outsourcing. Why? Because industry standard is about 50% not the 35% the TWU got in the language. You would have been able to shed the overhaul group you care so little about. It's all about the size of your paycheck Bob even if it is at the expense of someone else's.

 
You cant spin your way out of this, the pilots gave $315 million/year and we gave $330 million/year, that's the sum of ALL concessions including the Lump sum and our DBP so comparing individual concessions is irrelevant to how much Equity we got. They got 13.5% of the company for that $315 million and we got 4.8% for $330 million.  The Pilots ended up getting 1% of the company for each $22 million they gave up while each 1% we got cost us $69 million in concessions. Our equity cost us three times as much as the pilots. Are our pilots the lowest paid in the industry with much inferior benefits and workrules?  
 
 
Keep spinning away the only thing preventing the company from outsourcing all of Tulsa is capacity and cost, its simply not cost effective. With new aircraft types comes new parts and significant outlays for parts, for every $1 million they spend in parts they can outsource $350,000 in labor, even labor we used to do in house. So if they spend $1 million on Airbus parts they can outsource $350,000 in MD-80 labor. How many hours does it take to do an MD-80 C check?  

 

[Bob Owens]

So since it is a matched contribution, would it not be a total of 8,800.00 for total yearly contribution?

No, by contribution he means company contribution,   its more like taking a $4400 cut in pay today to get the match and have $8800 in a retirement savings account for tomorrow. 

 

[Bob Owens]

 
Sorry, you are right the former AMFA represented base is at Duluth. Apparently it is fully staffed with low wage AMTs now. Thanks AMFA.
 
AAR recently completed its 100th Airbus heavy check for the carrier, and plans to open a fourth line this fall to boost capacity. AAR employs 305 in Duluth, and an additional line could add as may as 70 jobs, putting the base’s staff close to where it was when Northwest occupied it.
 
http://aviationweek.com/mro/air-canada-deal-paves-way-aar-duluth-expansion
 

305 mechanics jobs, hmm, how many mechanics were in AFW, and MCI? One thing is that your claim that those jobs disappeared forever is false, it looks like will be just as many jobs in Duluth as there ever was. Wonder how the starting pay in Duluth compares to the starting pay in Tulsa? 

 

[JABORD]

 
Sorry, you are right the former AMFA represented base is at Duluth. Apparently it is fully staffed with low wage AMTs now. Thanks AMFA.
 
AAR recently completed its 100th Airbus heavy check for the carrier, and plans to open a fourth line this fall to boost capacity. AAR employs 305 in Duluth, and an additional line could add as may as 70 jobs, putting the base’s staff close to where it was when Northwest occupied it.
 
http://aviationweek.com/mro/air-canada-deal-paves-way-aar-duluth-expansion
 

 
 

 
I did not blame AMFA in my reply. I said they did not do better than the TWU did during the last ten years of relentless assaults on organized labor.

Man can you blow some smoke! You repeatedly blame AMFA for job losses yet, "disappointed TWBoo couldn't save AFW but AA is to blame"!  Credibliity man, get some!

 

[Overspeed]

 
You cant spin your way out of this, the pilots gave $315 million/year and we gave $330 million/year, that's the sum of ALL concessions including the Lump sum and our DBP so comparing individual concessions is irrelevant to how much Equity we got. They got 13.5% of the company for that $315 million and we got 4.8% for $330 million.  The Pilots ended up getting 1% of the company for each $22 million they gave up while each 1% we got cost us $69 million in concessions. Our equity cost us three times as much as the pilots. Are our pilots the lowest paid in the industry with much inferior benefits and workrules?  
 
 
Keep spinning away the only thing preventing the company from outsourcing all of Tulsa is capacity and cost, its simply not cost effective. With new aircraft types comes new parts and significant outlays for parts, for every $1 million they spend in parts they can outsource $350,000 in labor, even labor we used to do in house. So if they spend $1 million on Airbus parts they can outsource $350,000 in MD-80 labor. How many hours does it take to do an MD-80 C check?  

 
There is no way the lump sum option is in the numbers you provided. And the APA is not the lowest paid and neither are we. How do you rationalize getting higher pay for a few AMTs on the line and overhaul at the expense of outsourcing jobs? Aren't those people's jobs important?
 
How many hours does it take to do a C Check on an MD80? Nothing when it's going to the desert.
 
Again, define parts Bob.