The Future Of BA Cabin Crew May Just Be The Future Of AA F/a's

[FA Mikey]

can someone address the time line to obtain certification before becoming a F/A at a US Carrier..?
Law states that all F/As must be certified....
anyone...???

FA's are certified by the FAA. Which is really nothing more than showing you are a current in your companies FAA approved emergency procedures. It takes on average 6 weeks to complete a standard training program. That includes course work company policy and procedures and FAA mandated drills.

The FAA did approve a simplified 12 day program for AA prior to the strike. It would qualify a FA one one AC type.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Mikey, you forget that TWA trained in 1986 3000 f/a in short order and they were qualified on all six aircraft. The course was 18 days and the training center was cranking 24 & 7. You should also know that AA could use the Flight Safety training centers that have mock up doors of all commercial aircraft. Some airlines use them for pilot Sim training.

 

[Bob Owens]

First off, you dont have to strike before AMR starts to train replacements, if they wanted to, they could start hiring today for your replacement. The naive brains kill me, ok, second, AMR will not train them At "YOUR" facilities, they will rent out facilities in (lets say) NM... set up simulators, equip, etc.. and start putting them through.

Once again, the cost of breaking the strike would probably be more then settling.

Actually, they wont have to train "double" the amount of flight attendants at all, b/c, everyone knows (except for you), that all 16,000 f/as aren't utilizied daily.

Well strikes can and do last more than a day.

Once again lets look at NWA mechanics, they trained these mechanics off site (property) and had them ready to go when the mechanics struck, replaced them immediately, and what happended?

What happened? NWA started hiring over a year ahead of time, still wasnt able to recruit enough scabs to maintain full operations and was eventually taken over by Delta. The scabs that NWA hired were people that they would never have hired under normal circumstances. Plus at NWA other unionized workgroups agreed to help the company break the strike, I dont see that happening this time around anywhere.

 

[Bob Owens]

Mikey, you forget that TWA trained in 1986 3000 f/a in short order and they were qualified on all six aircraft. The course was 18 days and the training center was cranking 24 & 7. You should also know that AA could use the Flight Safety training centers that have mock up doors of all commercial aircraft. Some airlines use them for pilot Sim training.

You forget that adjusted for inflation the wage offered to the scabs was more than what AA is now paying you. Since 1986 real wages have declined by over 40%. So back then there would have been a lot more qualified applicants going for the job, now AA is competing with McDonalds and Walmart for workers. You seem to underestimate your value.

Two things, AA isnt preparing for a strike because they know it isnt going to happen, the government will step in. The unions need to focus on how the airlines have seen dramatic increases in revenue and how they've chosen to redistribute what they have. Workers have delivered huge increases in productivity and been penalized for it, this breaks one of the promises of our modern capitalist system that claims that increased worker productivity results in higher living standards.

The fact is this isnt 1986 when airline jobs were still considered to be good jobs. I doubt you will find many kids out there that aspire to work for an airline. Like I said NWA scraped the bottom of the barrel back in 2005 (when there were still displaced airline workers out there) and couldnt meet what they were looking for. Its been seven years since the airlines were really hiring, but there isnt a pent up supply of people looking to come into this industry, in fact we had around 300 names on the recall list at JFK for Aircraft Maintenance, they were only able to get 18 to come back-everyone else moved on. Most left the industry permanently.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

FA's are certified by the FAA. Which is really nothing more than showing you are a current in your companies FAA approved emergency procedures. It takes on average 6 weeks to complete a standard training program. That includes course work company policy and procedures and FAA mandated drills.

The FAA did approve a simplified 12 day program for AA prior to the strike. It would qualify a FA one one AC type.

..to be clear..

I'm not talking about FAA certified training but CERTIFICATION of a F/A..(think blue/green Kitty hawk card)
There is a time line involved for fingerprinting, background investigations by various Federal agencies, distribution of cards, etc. I know that now the F/A positing is now one that is "certified" and in order to work for a US carrier the individual must be a Certified Flight Attendant.
In the case of replacement workers in the event of a strike, has this additional step been considered concerning the training and placement of SCABS. I highly doubt the Feds will give AA or any carrier a "pass" when pushing thru "7 day wonders" and these individuals will have to get in line for this process as any f/a has and thus giving the Union more time to adjust their time line and strategy of a strike.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

CHAOS will not work. I know plenty of active AA f/a's and from what I am hearing they simply cannot economically afford any kind of strike. Remember this is not 1993 when the economy was booming and hardly anyone was facing forclosure.

Also bear in mind that AA management reads these boards and they are not shaking in their Texas boots. I believe APFA will be offering another bad contract. With the contract already gutted due to the RPA, once something is given away it is very hard too get back.

The APFA rank and file are not the same as they were in 93. The Association is very divided and I am not just talking about the TWA f/a's, I am talking about f/a's who are active. Not many of my friends are seeing those yellow disc's being worn.
All those bag tags and pins are not scaring AA at AAll.

 

[FA Mikey]

I highly doubt the Feds will give AA or any carrier a "pass" when pushing thru "7 day wonders" and these individuals will have to get in line for this process as any f/a has and thus giving the Union more time to adjust their time line and strategy of a strike.

Does anyone remember about the 7 day wonders, were they only able to be in addition to a min crew staffing? I recall the original 12 day training, that was reduced, and then raised up again to 8 or 9 days. Anyone, Anyone.

 

[FA Mikey]

The APFA rank and file are not the same as they were in 93. The Association is very divided and I am not just talking about the TWA f/a's, I am talking about f/a's who are active. Not many of my friends are seeing those yellow disc's being worn.
All those bag tags and pins are not scaring AA at AAll.

They weren't scared in 93. Janet Kraus assured CP5 the FA's lacked enough support. You cannot judge a group until the final agreement is in hand. Then they will decide where they are going and what they will have to do. All there is now is rumor and hearsay.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Mikey, 93 was then and this is now. AA will fire anyone who acts on CHAOS. Of course they will get their job back after going to court. Remember AA has big gun attorneys. AA is not a small regional airline like Alaska. AA will drag out the return of any striker out as long as they can. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[FA Mikey]

You have me confused with one of those afa chaos nuts. I think it is the biggest joke.

AA cannot fire someone for a legal job action after the 30 day cooling off period. The will threaten and say they will but its highly unlikely they would follow through unless the person did something stupid like hand out flyers wearing a gorilla suit. It would bad enough to be replaced and have to wait for an opening by seniority to return.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Mikey, sorry to inform you. Yes, AA can fire anyone and then the f/a can grieve it. And yes, they probably will win their jobs back but this can take some time. How long? I don't know.

 

[Skymess]

Mikey, you forget that TWA trained in 1986 3000 f/a in short order and they were qualified on all six aircraft. The course was 18 days and the training center was cranking 24 & 7. You should also know that AA could use the Flight Safety training centers that have mock up doors of all commercial aircraft. Some airlines use them for pilot Sim training.

We can only use the mock up doors for regular door operation check off. They don't use them for checking you off on evac drills. They don't work in automatic or armed mode because they don't have slide weight in them and power assist.

 

[Skymess]

CHAOS will not work. I know plenty of active AA f/a's and from what I am hearing they simply cannot economically afford any kind of strike. Remember this is not 1993 when the economy was booming and hardly anyone was facing forclosure.

Really, you've spoken to people who said they would cross a picket line or you are theorizing? My opinion is that you are delusional. If it came down to a strike, which NOBODY wants, AAFAs would NOT cross.

Also bear in mind that AA management reads these boards and they are not shaking in their Texas boots.

Then they're stupid.

I believe APFA will be offering another bad contract. With the contract already gutted due to the RPA, once something is given away it is very hard too get back.

APFA may very well offer a bad contract but AAFAs will not vote for it. I agree that it will be very difficult to get everything we gave away back. That doesn't mean we don't deserve it or shouldn't try.

The APFA rank and file are not the same as they were in 93. The Association is very divided and I am not just talking about the TWA f/a's, I am talking about f/a's who are active. Not many of my friends are seeing those yellow disc's being worn.
All those bag tags and pins are not scaring AA at AAll.

Many of the APFA rank and file ARE the same people from '93. Those hired after heard enough stories about the strike and the SCABS to think thrice before trying to cross a picket line. The FAs that I speak to from around the system are from all seniorities and we want a raise without having to demolish our work rules to get it. All of the people I speak to are ready to walk out if we don't get it and it reaches that point. We are collectively disgusted and angry at how management took our money to only reward themselves year after year.

The yellow discs worn or not worn are not an indication of how determined the FAs are to get a decent contract or whether an FA would be willing to walk a picket line.

Let's be clear, nobody wants it to come to a strike. We sacrificed, we deserve a raise (without having to gut our work rules to get it), and it shouldn't have to reach the point where a strike comes into play.

 

[czerny]

And aren't almost all AA FAs at the top of scale?
[/quote]

Wish that was true. I've gone through 2 furloughs and my pay was frozen both times, and on this involuntary overage leave for 2 months, my pay seniority is again frozen. I'm being paid at fourth year pay rate and was expecting a raise in October which will now be postphoned to January. Yes, you are right that a lot of people would work for less. A friend of mine runs a recruiting business for airlines, and people still want to be a "stewardess" or steward for any airline anywhere. I have a feeling that if we were ever to hire off the street, the new crews will be paid at a much lower rate than when I started 8 years ago with AA.

 

[FA Mikey]

Mikey, sorry to inform you. Yes, AA can fire anyone and then the f/a can grieve it. And yes, they probably will win their jobs back but this can take some time. How long? I don't know.

Without just cause, they cannot and wont. It is too far fetched. Can you cite any instance of a person being fired for a legal job action? No one has no one will. Its just as effective to replace them and let them return in seniority order as openings come up.