Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[Overspeed]

As I pointed out earlier, Overspeed is anti-union, he is only pro-TWU as long as they give AA everything they want. "If you don't like it quit", another glimpse into his true management mindset.

Not anti union. The TWU has a better contract and he knows it just like you do.

 

[Overspeed]

For Fleet, Stores and Title II that's true, the IAM contract is inferior, but for MX its not, they both suck.Please explain why we had to pay $69 million for 1% of the new company and the pilots only had to pay $23 million.Exactly, and that is good news for MROS because it means they can charge more. In other words for AA, and others, outsourcing is even less appealing.

It says MRO backlogs are lowest in North America. Read other articles that show AAR is adding capacity in anticipation of more work. They bought the former AMFA represented NW base in MSP and another in Lake Charles, LA. Outsourcing is very appealing with charge out rates sub $65 an hour.

 

[Bob Owens]

You do know that even after the BK CBA AA still has more AMT jobs per aircraft and departure than any AMFA represented carrier.

Yes and what is driving that is we still have an old fleet with a lot of MD-80s, 757s and 767s out there and as the article you yourself cited the MROs are backlogged. So they are stuck with us until they get new aircraft, then along with the new aircraft they get new parts, that increases the maintenance spend, and if the MRO's up their capacity AA can outsource more work and eliminate even more than the loss of higher maintenance old airplanes eliminates.

There is no defense over what was done. It was wrong, Union workers should not end up with worse conditions than Non-union workers with the excuse "we (think) we saved jobs". Maybe its my Catholic upbringing but there can be no redemption until confession. Your thought process and actions have devastated the profession.

 

[Overspeed]

Maybe he said that when after we were locked into six years, that turned to 15 years, of concessions that were supposed to be only three with the early openers, and he was running around pushing to reward the company by increasing productivity (and eliminating more jobs)through PLI and JLT he said that, but then in negotiations when he asked about how we were going to capture "all the value" we gave the company through those programs Weel bluntly said "You're not, you're getting nothing, the oil companies got it". Every day fuel went up he would tell the committee how many millions more it would cost the company, however when fuel went down he would never say how much they would be saving. In Kansas City most certainly pushed for flat out concessions and not asking the company for anything, we were told we had price our labor so they could get outside work to fill the white spaces.
 


That's your big lie because I didn't say that, I said we lost half the guys who were here in 2003 anyway. I said that with 18000 guys giving up a week of vacation allowed them to eliminate over 350 more heads and asked you to explain how that concession saved jobs, well where is your explanation?

 

.
Yes but as of 2009 the airline shrunk by 30% but our headcount shrunk but over 35% and that was with bringing more work back in house due to rising costs by 3p providers. Now our fleet is roughly the same size it was in 2009 but our headcount is down around 20% more.
 

 
Yes I recall packing AA Airbus Engines to go to Europe and Canada for overhaul.

So if AA spends $1million on new parts they can outsource $350,000 in labor to install them. great plan with a new fleet coming in where they will be spending billions on parts. How much does one fan blade cost and what's the labor cost to install it?
 

.
Actually I don't, it was with great pleasure that when I got the news I wouldn't need to have to go through him anymore I deleted it.

I've argued these point sin the past. We all know the banter between us. I believe I'm right as you do as well.

The fact remains we have a CBA in place. Like it or not the point is that the industry comparable language is good for the membership. It protects them in the event another union gets a better deal.

What do you define as "parts"?

As far as Don, that issue is in the past. He is out of your way so stop trying to deflect the fact the only thing you guys have done was ramrod a fat raise for yourselves and got the Baker letter language back so you guys don't have to go to work. The same thing you complained about Don and his buddies doing. We don't see our officers from 591 to answer our questions.

 

[Bob Owens]

It says MRO backlogs are lowest in North America. Read other articles that show AAR is adding capacity in anticipation of more work. They bought the former AMFA represented NW base in MSP and another in Lake Charles, LA. Outsourcing is very appealing with charge out rates sub $65 an hour.

Produce them. I've read where AAR said they would hire hundreds more mechanics, if they could find them(with what they are offering).

$65 an hour, plus all the other fees and add on's. The fact is each contract is separately negotiated and they do not release that info, its proprietary. The company admitted during BK that they expected they would pay premium rates and would not realize enough savings from NB outsourcing. You try and spin that figure out there as if we are competing against $65 an hour when that's not really the case at all, there are tons of variables. If outsourcing is so great then why aren't other carriers , even non-union ones like Jet Blue and Delta outsourcing even more as attrition lowers their staffing levels? Why do they continue to hire?

 

[Overspeed]

Yes and what is driving that is we still have an old fleet with a lot of MD-80s, 757s and 767s out there and as the article you yourself cited the MROs are backlogged. So they are stuck with us until they get new aircraft, then along with the new aircraft they get new parts, that increases the maintenance spend, and if the MRO's up their capacity AA can outsource more work and eliminate even more than the loss of higher maintenance old airplanes eliminates.There is no defense over what was done. It was wrong, Union workers should not end up with worse conditions than Non-union workers with the excuse "we (think) we saved jobs". Maybe its my Catholic upbringing but there can be no redemption until confession. Your thought process and actions have devastated the profession.

The fleets you cite are being retired within in the net three years. Planes in the desert don't need overhauls. AA doesn't need MROs for those aircraft. Again you prove that you are misinformed.

You and your vote no coalition complained about Don talking about his faith and now you cite religion. Really? So the circle is complete, you and your team get the same UB deal with your wages paid by AA, don't show up at work, and cite religion. Hmmm...

 

[Bob Owens]

I've argued these point sin the past. We all know the banter between us. I believe I'm right as you do as well.

The fact remains we have a CBA in place. Like it or not the point is that the industry comparable language is good for the membership. It protects them in the event another union gets a better deal.

Just don't sell it as something it isn't, with our work rules, vacation, Holidays, Sick time, and Health Benefit cost it will bring us up, but we will still be at the bottom. If anything it protects the company from a mass exodus and an inability to hire as much as it helps us.


 

As far as Don, that issue is in the past.
 

Not really, we have to live with what he did till 2018, even though there may be an opportunity to make changes with a JCBA what we have now will still affect what we are able to recapture then.

 

He is out of your way so stop trying to deflect the fact the only thing you guys have done was ramrod a fat raise for yourselves and got the Baker letter language back so you guys don't have to go to work. The same thing you complained about Don and his buddies doing. We don't see our officers from 591 to answer our questions.
 

The money, that really bothers you. Yes its pretty good and I appreciate it, comes out to 9 hours OT per week. If you can get enough people to vote for you then you can give up working OT and put in a lot more hours doing this job, or not, you could be like a certain FORMER International appointee and take selfies at the bar or restaurant to put on facebook  when you should be working but that probably wont get you re-elected and the work would pile up quickly. So go and make a motion to cut the pay to what you think it should be at the next meeting. Then you get to vote online for it, that's one thing we did  get in place. You can vote the same way you post and throw out your attacks-online anonymously. Turnout with the online voting has been over 80% of the electorate. When have you ever seen that? You probably like it better the old way where five guys vote on something that affects hundreds. I believe this made our Local more Democratic than any other Local has ever been here at AA. We also got to have control over our grievances heard on the system board, no longer will system grievances be sacrificed because a few appointed people would rather that we lose so they can blame the bad result on the people who brought the grievance forward. It was pretty bad, many Locals were hesitant to bring system Grievances forward because of Internal Union politics, I heard in one case the Arbitrator ruled against BOTH the panel members and in favor of the grievant! Would I like to get on the floor more? Yes, I didn't have a problem as President when they pulled the UBB because with negotiations over and a very productive efficient E-board there was much less traveling and I had more time to talk to the guys, and post here.  That obviously annoyed the crap out of you because you kept bringing it up, like you do now with the pay. But with all the work its not easy to get the time, plus what exactly are you looking for? Do you feel that all the officers should be on the floor daily in DFW and ignore the 21 other stations? Gary has been visiting a few class II stations as time allows and we do quarterly meetings in the five hubs. Don did a one time tour to fill the guys with false information where he claimed that our contract was better than Continentals and we made more once benefits were thrown in-I was able to correct that. We do have cell phones and Email addresses so you do not have to see us to contact us and ask questions, we can answer you in DFW from wherever there is phone service or an internet connection.  I do expect that over the next few months I will have more time and hope to get to the floor more here in the NE, especially LGA, who knows, maybe even see me in DFW. Right now, along with the regular treasurers duties I'm still working with the accountants to finally close out the audits on the five Locals that were shut down as well as I told you before, having a system to make it easier to track the dues payments of 4300 members spread across 22 stations. How does that help the members? Easy, shouldn't everyone pay if anyone pays? Oh and by the way, the bylaws that Don put in place said this was a full time job, he did get that right, so regardless of who pays what I would still be off the clock, I didn't ask to be taken off the bid, the company requested it, I would rather bid because as you know things can change quicker than anticipated.  Again, I complained about appointed people, such as Don and his buddies, one who already made it official and went into management,  who were unaccountable to the membership making decisions for the membership and advocating concessions that they did not have to live under. I was voted in by a membership vote, can be voted out by a membership vote, can be recalled by a membership vote and do not advocate concessions,  I know this job is a privilege and that I will have to live under those concessions as well. If you cant see the difference then you have more problems than I already suspected.

 

[Vortilon]

It says MRO backlogs are lowest in North America. Read other articles that show AAR is adding capacity in anticipation of more work. They bought the former AMFA represented NW base in MSP and another in Lake Charles, LA. Outsourcing is very appealing with charge out rates sub $65 an hour.

 
 
AAR at MSP,  I think not.  You might be confusing MSP with Duluth.  AAR cannot find enough people to staff their Duluth facility as evidenced by the constant aircraft mechanics job openings posted on several airline employment websites.  Get your facts straight!

 

[Vortilon]

The fleets you cite are being retired within in the net three years. Planes in the desert don't need overhauls. AA doesn't need MROs for those aircraft. Again you prove that you are misinformed.

You and your vote no coalition complained about Don talking about his faith and now you cite religion. Really? So the circle is complete, you and your team get the same UB deal with your wages paid by AA, don't show up at work, and cite religion. Hmmm...

 
 
Don,  When are you coming back to the floor?  Word is that you're gonna try parlay your ailments into some sort of medical retirement.  C'mon back, the guys have a lot of questions for you.

 

[Bob Owens]

The fleets you cite are being retired within in the net three years. Planes in the desert don't need overhauls. AA doesn't need MROs for those aircraft. Again you prove that you are misinformed.

You and your vote no coalition complained about Don talking about his faith and now you cite religion. Really? So the circle is complete, you and your team get the same UB deal with your wages paid by AA, don't show up at work, and cite religion. Hmmm...

You're right that airplanes in the desert don't need overhauls, and when they don't have as many planes that need to be overhauled our ratio will look more and more like other legacies, but our workrules, shift pay, Vacations, Holidays, sick time and Benefits wont. As far as being misinformed it appears that you have confirmed what I did say, not what you try and claim I said, my statement was in response to where you said that we had a higher ratio of mechanics per airplane, I said that the old planes were what was driving that ratio, not our contract. What's the matter cant debate the issue so you make up statements?
 
Religion? I don't expect a captive audience to stand while I pray nor do I expect them to listen to me pray when I'm working or at a business meeting. Saying I was brought up Catholic and how that affects my thought process is not the same as holding up business on a daily basis while subjecting everyone to something out of Talledega nights. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuAUI_0knfk

Please explain why we had to pay $69 million for each 1% of the new company and the pilots only had to pay $23 million. Why did we have to give triple the "concessions vs equity"? You advocated for this, were you aware of it?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

The TWU has blazed the trail for industry leading concessions and first in the industries. (partime,OSM, line outsourcing)
Fact:  US Air and other airlines are using our contract against them in negotiations.
That is a proud union moment to know that the TWU helps management fight other labor organizations.

 

[700UW]

 
Harry Lombardo stated that the US/IAM members are working under a contract that is inferior to the TWU BK CBA.
 
The US IAM members have been receiving no pension credit after 2004, far lower wages since 2004, and suffered thousands of job losses far beyond the 2003 concessions than the TWU represented members at AA. I a

 
Chuck stick to your day job, contracting...no marriage counseling...no union organizer...no weak union officer who quits at the first sign of conflict...I mean AMT who is too busy organizing for AMFA to work on planes.

You are wrong, the IAM M&R at US had their pension from the time they worked till January of 2005.
 
In 2008 they negotiated the IAMNPF and were vested immediately, so from 2008, now and going forward they have an $84 a month multiplier and are asking for $100 in negotiations right now.
 
So you are wrong and lying.
 
And they have been recalling mechanics and stock clerks for several years and have even hired mechanics off the street.
 
And have better scope, sick time, overtime, vacation and many other things.

 

[Bob Owens]

You are wrong, the IAM M&R at US had their pension from the time they worked till January of 2005.

Get used to it. That's his specialty.

How many Holidays do you get again, and what is the rate?
Do you get doubletime after 12 hours?
How much sick time do you get?
Do you lose half pay for the first two days you call in sick for each occurrence?
What are your shift premiums?
Do you have any sort of defined job security?
Do you have a defined job set?


Yes at this moment our hourly rate is more than yours, but we have a relatively new deal, you guys are under a deal that became amendable two years ago, received one increase after the amendable date and are seeking to get released correct? So after one year without an increase you are looking for a release, we refused to request a release after three years without an increase. Little actually brought Larry Gibbons (from the Union Busting firm AIRCON and non-union carrier Airbourne Express) to tell us why we should not ask for a release.

 

[MetalMover]

You are wrong, the IAM M&R at US had their pension from the time they worked till January of 2005.
 
In 2008 they negotiated the IAMNPF and were vested immediately, so from 2008, now and going forward they have an $84 a month multiplier and are asking for $100 in negotiations right now.
 
So you are wrong and lying.
 
And they have been recalling mechanics and stock clerks for several years and have even hired mechanics off the street.
 
And have better scope, sick time, overtime, vacation and many other things.

Because you have such a superior contract, that is why your negotiations are going nowhere. Compared the TWU contract you have a better one with the exception of wages.

 

[700UW]

Now explain how the current CBA is a hindrance to a new CBA.
 
Its called the RLA, and do you understand the negotiations are controlled by the NMB, not the IAM nor US?
 
And they met this week and they are meeting again next week.