APA President blasts management.

[jcw]

This is great - the pilots should March right in and tell Doug they want DL pay and DL work rules - I'm sure he will go for it - or better yet March right in and tell him we think you should sell to the government so we don't have to make money and can be run like Amtrak

I know a pilot never makes a mistake or an FA ever makes a mistake - and therefore the company can never make a mistake

The best part of the DL story is they don't have a constant fight on there hands with their employees unlike AA and UA

 

[cltrat]

that's because DL treats their employees as assets not as necessary evils

 

[jcw]

I blogged about this three years ago how all airline management is cut from the same cloth.

And union leaders are cut from different clothes - i.e. Fight with the company at all costs

 

[WeAAsles]

that's because DL treats their employees as assets not as necessary evils

C'mon Rat. Don't talk down about that Cult-ture they got over there.

 

[commavia]

that's because DL treats their employees as assets not as necessary evils

 
Which employees would those be?  The ones outsourced to El Salvador or the ones downgraded to Ready Reserve?  😀  But seriously, I get the point you're making.
 
Anyway, the complaints about AA's apparently slow and cheap implementation of some aspects of the labor integration seem completely legitimate to me - if people aren't getting paid for their labor per their contract, that's a big problem.
 
But on the other, broader, complaints, I can't help but read about the issues that the APA (and AA's other unions, no doubt) have about the new management and its approach to everything from profit sharing to bargaining to D0 departures and think two things:
 
(1) These are all fantastic points to have considered right around April 19, 2012, before they went around Horton and his 1113 term sheets (and his 15% first-dollar profit sharing, lest we forget) and got in bed with Doug Parker.
 
(2) What on earth did AA's unions expect?  Had none of them placed a phone call to their counterparts at USAirways?
 
At the time, the unions clearly felt they were getting a better deal from Parker than they were ever going to get from Horton, and they knew - or certainly should have known - what that deal entailed.  I find it absolutely fascinating to watch how perspectives have evolved, and how pretty much exactly those deals that all of the unions willingly - happily! - agreed to four years ago are now apparently causing such dissatisfaction and unhappiness.

 

[Koolcat]

And union leaders are cut from different clothes - i.e. Fight with the company at all costs

there are two types of Union Leaders: Fighters who don't sugar coat their answers to questions and side with the membership and Politicians who tell you what you want to hear and always pretend to fight with management. But the funny thing is that the Politicians are always getting elected into office around here. We need more intelligent fighting Union Leaders and Less Politician Union Leaders who are always loud and pound their chest but get nothing done.

 

[Koolcat]

At the time, the unions clearly felt they were getting a better deal from Parker than they were ever going to get from Horton, and they knew - or certainly should have known - what that deal entailed.  I find it absolutely fascinating to watch how perspectives have evolved, and how pretty much exactly those deals that all of the unions willingly - happily! - agreed to four years ago are now apparently causing such dissatisfaction and unhappiness.
 
 
 
 
It was a better deal then Horton!
 
if your going to dance with the Devils, choose the one who is a better dancer.

 

[commavia]

there are two types of Union Leaders: Fighters who don't sugar coat their answers to questions and side with the membership and Politicians who tell you what you want to hear and always pretend to fight with management. But the funny thing is that the Politicians are always getting elected into office around here. We need more intelligent fighting Union Leaders and Less Politician Union Leaders who are always loud and pound their chest but get nothing done.

 
Question (genuine, serious, non-sarcastic): do you really think the problem in 2012 was "politician" union leaders who told their membership what said membership wanted to hear, or were the union leaders (or at least some of them) "[not] sugar coat[ing] their answers" and getting the best deals they could for their membership and just some of their membership heard what they wanted to hear, or didn't hear anything if they didn't want to listen?
 

It was a better deal then Horton!
 
if your going to dance with the Devils, choose the one who is a better dancer.

 
Fine - I actually agree with you.
 
But if that's the case, then make the deal and stop complaining about it.
 
If the "better dancer" is the "devil" who relentlessly cuts costs and has no use for profit sharing, or really for dealing with unions at all unless and until he needs something from them, and the unions still "dance" with him anyway, then why on earth would they be complaining about it three years later?  It just strikes me as tone deaf and detached from reality.  Again - the unions knew, or should have known, exactly what they were getting into.

 

[dfw gen]

that's because DL treats their employees as assets not as necessary evils

That's is a fact jack!

 

[Koolcat]

 
Question (genuine, serious, non-sarcastic): do you really think the problem in 2012 was "politician" union leaders who told their membership what said membership wanted to hear, or were the union leaders (or at least some of them) "[not] sugar coat[ing] their answers" and getting the best deals they could for their membership and just some of their membership heard what they wanted to hear, or didn't hear anything if they didn't want to listen?
 
 
Fine - I actually agree with you.
 
But if that's the case, then make the deal and stop complaining about it.
 
If the "better dancer" is the "devil" who relentlessly cuts costs and has no use for profit sharing, or really for dealing with unions at all unless and until he needs something from them, and the unions still "dance" with him anyway, then why on earth would they be complaining about it three years later?  It just strikes me as tone deaf and detached from reality.  Again - the unions knew, or should have known, exactly what they were getting into.

Seriously in Bankruptcy , Unions don't win!  In the thirty or so to date Bankruptcy filings a union has never won, They just tend to try to survive. Was there some "sugar coating" going around at that time of course! Why? Because some of the Union Leaders didn't fully understand the whole process. those who did, knew that it was a fight for survival and you have a gun to your head when it come to the company negotiating contracts. a Union who didn't agree would get their contract "Abrogated" in bankruptcy court as the APA did. 

 

[Koolcat]

We're lucky to have survive it all and many would not agree with me. Ask your Union Leaders , what would have happen if AA would needed a DIP (Debtor-in-possession) 
 
and what shape would our Union be in if they did indeed have taken that step?

 

[GlobalByrd]

I didn't read any indication that Horton wanted to continue to run the airline after the BK. BK was what he was used for. 

 
Horton was initially to be the heir to the throne post Arpey and run AA standalone. That was before Douggie came sniffing around and began wooing the unions. Once the merger idea caught on with labor and some creditors, Horton made a hopeless effort to convince the creditors that he would be the better choice to run the merged airline.
 

we are AA in name only. Our real name is America West.
 

 
I wish. No, your real name is US Airways. HP was a loveable little airline (pre Parker). Parker brought his brand of cheapness to HP, US, and now AA.  

 

[conehead777]

So the employees jumped at the chance to embrace Doug the Deceiver in order to stick it to Horton, and are now realizing the grass was greener but it was astroturf.

actualy the threes unions embraced Doug to get to Horton we at least on twu side membership got no vote in merger are eliminate ps for raise jim
Little did all that

 

[Kev3188]

that's because DL treats their employees as assets not as necessary evils

Not all that glitters is gold...

 

[Black Magic]

Not all that glitters is gold...

Very peculiar that you are the only DL employee on this entire site to think that. Not a very good ratio indeed. DL must be doing something right as the employee complaints are minimal compared to rest of airlines.