APA President blasts management.

[Koolcat]

If all goes well - Doug will be driven out - labor will get their 4,5, or 6 new CEO - labor will cripple the airline forcing another bankruptcy that hopefully will turn into liqudation - then everyone will be happy - labor won - just like they are winning at Walmart
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-01-26/beware-wal-mart-s-raises-are-not-a-victory

Thank God your not an analysis

 

[Koolcat]

What type of idiot would wish for liquidation? ??

 

[Kev3188]

Of course not ! Only an idiot would think we will get everything and then some back. It's always be a horse trade in the past.

This mindset is a huge reason why labor is stalling out in this country.

I'm not singling you out, Koolcat, it's pervasive...

 

[AANOTOK]

This mindset is a huge reason why labor is stalling out in this country.

I'm not singling you out, Koolcat, it's pervasive...

Totally disagree. You get some leadership who listens to it's members, who have balls like they did in years past, then maybe you will have less of the I got mine folks and truly have unionism alive and well. The blame the member crap gets old...
 
Unions became a business instead of a fight and therein lies the problem. The Association is a perfect example of taking care of themselves before the members. But I will add the decline started before then.

 

[Overspeed]

jcw,
5 to 6 CEOs later CO ended up with Bethune who turned out to be a great CEO. If we have to dump Parker and a few successors to end up with CEO who can really build a successful airline that employees, customers, and shareholders love that's not a bad thing. Notice after Bethune CO survived and prospered. The Execs did not accept bonuses when the employees weren't getting raises (not like AMR) and they did not file BK. The also led year after year in JD Power surveys for best service.
 
Bethune and Herb proved that you can make a lot of money for everyone if you have the right mindset. Parker is just lining his pockets by stripping the value out of AAL. When he company goes BK again he wil get a nice retention bonus and we will get another paycut.

 

[700UW]

CO filed bankruptcy twice, once under Lorenzo and Lorenzo is why Section 1113 was made into law has back before 1113 CBAs were abrogated without due process for the unions, there were no negotiations no nothing.

They filed chapter 11 in 1983 and again in the 1990.

Lorenzo broke all the unions as when the CBAS went away the judge also tossed away all the unions' certifications too.

Educate yourself.

And in 2005 all the unions negotiated and approved concessions, I was there for the IAM on the FA Negotiating Committee.

So CO is no different than any other airline.

 

[eolesen]

There was also no one who was anyone, banks, creditors, analysts, unions, etc who liked or agreed with the AA Standalone, Cornerstone plan. They said it would keep the industry fragmented and produce less revenue (profits)

Keep in mind the only reason the banks, creditors, and analysts were against the Standalone was because Labor was making it clear they'd rather burn the place down than keep Horton. Without labor onboard, it would never succeed.

 

I also don't think any of the Unions hated Horton. But there certainly were some managers below him that were very much hated.

Yeah, not quite the way I recall it. The unions wanted Horton gone in the same shortsighted way that TW's employees wanted "Anyone but Lorenzo" and wound up with Carl Icahn...


AA "Going for Bronze" is exactly what is happening. As long as the employees have slipped back into the same distrust that existed from 2003 until the merger announcement, AA will wind up fighting over the table scraps from DL and UA (assuming their new CEO can clean up the messes left behind by Smisek).

 

[Worldport]

Keep in mind the only reason the banks, creditors, and analysts were against the Standalone was because Labor was making it clear they'd rather burn the place down than keep Horton. Without labor onboard, it would never succeed.

 

Yeah, not quite the way I recall it. The unions wanted Horton gone in the same shortsighted way that TW's employees wanted "Anyone but Lorenzo" and wound up with Carl Icahn...


AA "Going for Bronze" is exactly what is happening. As long as the employees have slipped back into the same distrust that existed from 2003 until the merger announcement, AA will wind up fighting over the table scraps from DL and UA (assuming their new CEO can clean up the messes left behind by Smisek).

So Parker should just give the unions a blank check and all will be fine?

 

[NYer]

It amazes me how quickly everyone forgets the history....the APA is upset there was no profit sharing, THEY started the trend during the BK process....
 
"It would be a lot more meaningful — about three times more — if American executives had had their way. They pushed an aggressive profit-sharing plan for more than two years, proposing that 15 percent of pretax profit go into the pool. Union negotiators knocked that down to 5 percent in exchange for higher raises. Then they gave up the 5 percent in talks with US Airways. Pilots, for instance, were given a choice by US Air: $61 million to spend if they kept profit-sharing or $87 million to spend if they gave it up, said Neil Roghair, chairman of the pilots union’s negotiating committee. They took the guaranteed money, including a higher hourly rate and a 2 percentage point increase in retirement contributions. “Our membership was screaming for Delta pay rates, and we wanted to close the pay gap as much as we could,” said Roghair, a first officer and vice chairman of the Allied Pilots Association."

 

[AANOTOK]

Since you're around NYer, what's the prefund and equity latest? (You can post it in the Prefund & Equity topic if you prefer)

 

[jcw]

So Parker should just give the unions a blank check and all will be fine?

Actually they wouldn't - they would be upset that the check wasn't filled out and they would have had work writing out the check

 

[WeAAsles]

jcw,
5 to 6 CEOs later CO ended up with Bethune who turned out to be a great CEO. If we have to dump Parker and a few successors to end up with CEO who can really build a successful airline that employees, customers, and shareholders love that's not a bad thing. Notice after Bethune CO survived and prospered. The Execs did not accept bonuses when the employees weren't getting raises (not like AMR) and they did not file BK. The also led year after year in JD Power surveys for best service.
 
Bethune and Herb proved that you can make a lot of money for everyone if you have the right mindset. Parker is just lining his pockets by stripping the value out of AAL. When he company goes BK again he wil get a nice retention bonus and we will get another paycut.

Doug Parker does not own the Company and can not just do anything he wants to at his whim. There is a Board of Directors that he must answer to and they're the one's who agree to and set his compensation. Not to mention I believe in the POR there are metrics that must be met by certain dates for him to receive certain performance bonuses?

http://www.aa.com/pubcontent/en_US/aboutUs/corporateInformation/board-directors.jsp

Yes Parker is doing things in a different way than Anderson is in running AA. If it's the right or wrong way, only time will tell? I think it's still far too early to grade.

 

[WeAAsles]

Keep in mind the only reason the banks, creditors, and analysts were against the Standalone was because Labor was making it clear they'd rather burn the place down than keep Horton. Without labor onboard, it would never succeed.
 

Not quite the way I recall it. Yes the analysts were saying that for it to really succeed Labor needed to be on-board. But for the most part they were touting the idea of finishing off consolidation as the answer to turning around the entire Industry's financial fortunes. One of the assessments was so good that I printed it up and carried it around with me at work to show people who couldn't get behind the US plan.

"Burn the place down?" No far from it. But Parker did offer a far better alternative than accepting the full measure of the contractual imposition of the BK court Judge. That's one that we would have been stuck with for 6 years as I recall.

 
 

Yeah, not quite the way I recall it. The unions wanted Horton gone in the same shortsighted way that TW's employees wanted "Anyone but Lorenzo" and wound up with Carl Icahn...
 

E you make it sound as if the Unions are a bunch of irrational buffoons who accept no professional guidance and flare up and make decisions only based on their emotions. I know that you're not a fan of Unions in general but you can't say that the APA, APFA and TWU did not take many factors into consideration before deciding to get in bed with the "Devil" (As some people say) 

Again Parker brought the plan to the Secured and Unsecured creditors and that was the plan that was overwhelmingly accepted. That in itself was the only reason that Doug Parker was going to run the new AA. Nothing personal to Tom Horton at all. It was a business decision.

 
 

AA "Going for Bronze" is exactly what is happening. As long as the employees have slipped back into the same distrust that existed from 2003 until the merger announcement, AA will wind up fighting over the table scraps from DL and UA (assuming their new CEO can clean up the messes left behind by Smisek).

Debatable? I'm not sure if they're going for Bronze yet? Again I think it's too early to tell if the direction of the new AA is a good one, or a bad one? Personally I'm glad that Parker is going toe to toe with those LCC's. I think they bore out a hole in the foundation if left unabated. I think Kirby was right that if we're stuck with them then we have to compete against them. (Precisely the reason I didn't like the standalone plan of insulating yourself in your strongholds waiting for the Huns to storm the castle. Take the fight to the Huns.)

As far as slipping back into distrust. The trust you're talking about hasn't been "earned" yet. But I have seen some strides from the company in trying to get to that point. (Aside from the Pre Funding Match double talk at two MIA Roadshows)..

I don't have any problem at all with Capt Wilson voicing his concern that maybe some momentum is faltering. It's his job as the Pilot's Leader to hold management in check and not see them repeat the mistakes of the past.


 

 

[WeAAsles]

It amazes me how quickly everyone forgets the history....the APA is upset there was no profit sharing, THEY started the trend during the BK process....
 
"It would be a lot more meaningful — about three times more — if American executives had had their way. They pushed an aggressive profit-sharing plan for more than two years, proposing that 15 percent of pretax profit go into the pool. Union negotiators knocked that down to 5 percent in exchange for higher raises. Then they gave up the 5 percent in talks with US Airways. Pilots, for instance, were given a choice by US Air: $61 million to spend if they kept profit-sharing or $87 million to spend if they gave it up, said Neil Roghair, chairman of the pilots union’s negotiating committee. They took the guaranteed money, including a higher hourly rate and a 2 percentage point increase in retirement contributions. “Our membership was screaming for Delta pay rates, and we wanted to close the pay gap as much as we could,” said Roghair, a first officer and vice chairman of the Allied Pilots Association."

In "Hindsight" it was a mistake to exchange the PS for the direct wage increases. But it's also very easy for other people to Monday Morning Quarterback. If anyone today says that they had a crystal ball that foretold oil dropping to $30.00 per barrel I'd like to see how rich they got shorting that bet.

Leaders when making a decision have to live in the moment. And at that moment making the decision to exchange the PS for guaranteed wages was the right decision to make. Playing the slots in Vegas at the end of the day doesn't usually do a great job in paying the bills.

However. Paying out a PS or a Bonus is NOT something that has to be held to any contract. Are we entitled to any payout? No. But if Doug is going around in Roadshows and saying that right now the company has more money than they know what to do with it does plant a seed in people's heads that "Hey, you know you CAN share some of that good fortune" If you read some of the investor Forums, they're clamoring to get their greedy little hands on some of that cash (Raise the dividends) Nothing wrong with us doing the same thing.

When it comes to Oil futures it seems Doug has a very clear Crystal Ball so far.
 

 

[Koolcat]

You were correct - AA did mortgage everything to raise those billions in cash, but the point is that there was a zero percent probability that AA was going out of business. AA filed for Ch 11 so it could score a win over the stubborn pilots and FAs, who refused to agree to more efficient contracts unless they got "restore and more" type compensation. AA certainly didn't file for Ch 11 because it had to or because it had run out of options (the reasons US, UA, NW and DL all filed for bankruptcy protection).There was no guarantee that AA would become insanely profitable, but that's not a satisfactory excuse for trading away profit sharing for small wage increases.By 12/31/2012, before the formal announcement of the merger, AA had almost turned the corner to profitability in its first year in bankruptcy. The 2012 net loss was just $130 million, excluding special items and reorganization expenses, a $900 million improvement over 2011's results. On a stand-alone basis in 2013, AA earned $1.0 billion in profits, excluding special items and reorg expenses, about the same as United earned in 2013.

Of course it was making a profit , it wasn't paying it's bills