APA Pilots Reject TA

[riceweevil]

Congradulations guys. Youll enjoy deeper concessions than the TA and lower standards for all unionized pilots. As I've said before, management will prevail one way or another. AA has bargained in good faith and given APA ample opportunity to reach a consensual deal. Some here will undoubtably say AA hasn't only because you're in denial over the fact that the concessions are necessary.

AA hubs will hopefully soon like DL at ATL or UA at ORD with a plethora of RJs and relatively few mainline departures. Domestic codeshare will chip away more of AA's operations at BOS and other points in the network.

Good luck.

Josh

AA management may not have an airline to manage if the pilots have enough distrust and distain for the upper management at AA. It's hard to operate an airline without pilots.

 

[FWAAA]

AA management may not have an airline to manage if the pilots have enough distrust and distain for the upper management at AA. It's hard to operate an airline without pilots.

Almost 3,000 of them voted yes, and once reality sets in, who knows how many more will fall into line? Pilots at US, UA, DL and NW all accepted huge, painful concessions during their bankruptcies. AA's pilots will be no different.

 

[Hopeful]

Almost 3,000 of them voted yes, and once reality sets in, who knows how many more will fall into line? Pilots at US, UA, DL and NW all accepted huge, painful concessions during their bankruptcies. AA's pilots will be no different.

Possibly they will....If the judge agrees to abrogation request.

Funny thing is, when we voted down LBO I....The company said we would still negotiate.
With the pilots, they stated they will continue with their abrogation request to be ruled on next week

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not sure that anyone knows w/ any degree of certainty how this will all turn out.
What is certain is the bravado that AA mgmt has had that they will win (echoed by their supporters on here) and that pilot supporters say that they will force the company to get a better offer cannot both be true and at some point in the not too distant future, it will all come to a head - and I see few winners when it happens.

Hey Josh,
here are a few statistics that might shed a little light on your assumption that AA and UA have "relatively" few mainline departures either at their primary hubs or nationwide.

These statistics are for flights within N. America - since RJs largely do not fly int'l flights; thus, the number of mainline seats and flights goes up if we add in int'l.

DL ATL 64% mainline ops, 83% mainline seats
UA ORD 32% mainline ops, 55% mainline seats

DL N. America 41% mainline ops, 65% mainline seats
UA N. America 32% mainline ops 57% mainline seats

 

[Realityck]

[background=rgb(242, 242, 242)]
riceweevil, on 08 August 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:[/background][background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]

AA management may not have an airline to manage if the pilots have enough distrust and distain for the upper management at AA. It's hard to operate an airline without pilots.[/background]
Almost 3,000 of them voted yes, and once reality sets in, who knows how many more will fall into line? Pilots at US, UA, DL and NW all accepted huge, painful concessions during their bankruptcies. AA's pilots will be no different.

I agree, not too many Bus driver positions open that pay that well. And starting as joe-the-new-guy doesn't work well for pilots.

 

[FWAAA]

Funny thing is, when we voted down LBO I....The company said we would still negotiate.
With the pilots, they stated they will continue with their abrogation request to be ruled on next week

I think that's because your first rejected TA was the full 20% cost reduction and you voted on it early enough to give plenty of time for the second LBO2 that contained the 3% improvement (17% cost reduction) based on the negotiations with the pilots. M&R and the pilots (plus the FAs) were all given a chance to vote on the 17% cost reduction LBOs. I don't predict further negotiations prior to the abrogation ruling because AA isn't willing to move any further off their demand. And if the court permits abrogation, I don't see AA being forced to improve the LBOs; I predict that at least 833 pilots would be willing to change their "no" to "yes" once they see what abrogation entails.

 

[Hopeful]

I think that's because your first rejected TA was the full 20% cost reduction and you voted on it early enough to give plenty of time for the second LBO2 that contained the 3% improvement (17% cost reduction) based on the negotiations with the pilots. M&R and the pilots (plus the FAs) were all given a chance to vote on the 17% cost reduction LBOs. I don't predict further negotiations prior to the abrogation ruling because AA isn't willing to move any further off their demand. And if the court permits abrogation, I don't see AA being forced to improve the LBOs; I predict that at least 833 pilots would be willing to change their "no" to "yes" once they see what abrogation entails.

I tend to agree that abrogation is likely to become a reality.

I can't tell you how many people think that in house overhaul is the single most disadvantageous reason for AA's labor costs. Most never think of SCOPE in that way.

 

[eolesen]

I can't tell you how many people think that in house overhaul is the single most disadvantageous reason for AA's labor costs. Most never think of SCOPE in that way.

Hey, I've been saying scope in both the APA and TWU contracts were the largest impediment to AMR for at least five years...

 

[Hopeful]

Hey, I've been saying scope in both the APA and TWU contracts were the largest impediment to AMR for at least five years...

Yes, but you would be surprised how many employees think it's only about maintenance work.

 

[Bogey]

I can see it now, 737 Captain walks into the livinig room and says to his 3rd wife,listen babe, I know child 1 is in college and the twins are in private high school and we have this beautiful 5000 sq ft home, but I am really mad right now and I want to leave this 175k a year job and move to Guangzhou, China. Let's go tell the kids.

What do you think "babe" will say when stops laughing?

 

[Phoenix]

I can see it now, 737 Captain walks into the livinig room and says to his 3rd wife,listen babe, I know child 1 is in college and the twins are in private high school and we have this beautiful 5000 sq ft home, but I am really mad right now and I want to leave this 175k a year job and move to Guangzhou, China. Let's go tell the kids.

What do you think "babe" will say when stops laughing?

Who, having two ex-wives, has a 5,000 sq ft house?

 

[Bogey]

First two was while he was a 727 engineer

 

[737823]

Hey Josh,
here are a few statistics that might shed a little light on your assumption that AA and UA have "relatively" few mainline departures either at their primary hubs or nationwide.

These statistics are for flights within N. America - since RJs largely do not fly int'l flights; thus, the number of mainline seats and flights goes up if we add in int'l.

DL ATL 64% mainline ops, 83% mainline seats
UA ORD 32% mainline ops, 55% mainline seats

DL N. America 41% mainline ops, 65% mainline seats
UA N. America 32% mainline ops 57% mainline seats

Interesting. My point is AA has less regional flying than DL & UA (an accepted fact). Sure DL may have less regional than UA but its still more than AA with a more flexible scope permitting operating of economically viable 70+ seat RJs.

Josh

 

[737823]

I can see it now, 737 Captain walks into the livinig room and says to his 3rd wife,listen babe, I know child 1 is in college and the twins are in private high school and we have this beautiful 5000 sq ft home, but I am really mad right now and I want to leave this 175k a year job and move to Guangzhou, China. Let's go tell the kids.

People are forced to make decisions like this all the time and its not always easy. Maybe unique to some here but jobs can require you to move and industry and market conditions change.

Josh

 

[Mach85ER]

I can see it now, 737 Captain walks into the livinig room and says to his 3rd wife,listen babe, I know child 1 is in college and the twins are in private high school and we have this beautiful 5000 sq ft home, but I am really mad right now and I want to leave this 175k a year job and move to Guangzhou, China. Let's go tell the kids.

What do you think "babe" will say when stops laughing?

Cute story. Always appreciate a good attempt at sarcastic humor, but I'd give you ranking of a Jamaican swimmer.

Been along time since I've run into that type of a situation. A few characters who are 62 with a 3 year old are always worth a good chuckle. FYI, that 737 Captain is making less per hour than a 767 First Officer 10 years ago. He's making less per hour than after the 23% paycut taken in 2003.

Commuting contracts with US basing are popping up. We'll see how many more come around once the real pressure on AC deliveries hits, assuming a bubble over there doesn't pop.