APA Pilots Reject TA

[Hopeful]

It will be interesting what the pilots do once their contract is thrown out. I have to say I'm surprised they voted no even after their union urged a yes votr

We will find out on August 15th..unless the judge grants more time.

 

[anotherbrickinthebackpack]

Wonder how many F/A's are changing their vote.Don't want to not have a ticket to the game.Thanx to all you yes voters.The TWU will be on the sidelines with the thumbs up their arses.

 

[eolesen]

Perhaps, but I'd say a lot more rides on the decisions in court next week than anything else. If the contract is tossed, that won't bode well for the FA's.

 

[bigjets]

The pilots I talked to today kept saying we will leave It in the judges hands. Don't be surprised when you guys get the term sheet, you know, what AA is asking for, the judge won't decide if you deserve atc hold pay, or a 767 pilot should be paid more then a 757 pilot. Hopefully AA needs to have a concenesual agreement before exiting bankruptcy, other wise this will be just like 2001 when you voted down a huge raise because of code sharing agreement AA had with Horizon, only for AA to code share with Alaskan and Horizon.

P.s. not a good time to walk out on your job, with Comair pilots looking for work.


Good luck

 

[ord78]

I for one am quite surprised with the percentages on this vote. I thought it would be close but not a blowout. I can't see Lane making his ruling for the F/A's before the vote is tallied though.

 

[Hopeful]

Hopefully AA needs to have a concenesual agreement before exiting bankruptcyP.s. not a good time to

Good luck

Someone needs to show where in the bankruptcy code that states consenual agreements are needed.
I sure as hell can't locate it.

 

[flybynite]

Does the Term Sheet have Scope Protections?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

An improved offer to the pilots will trigger an improvement to all other groups thanks to the "me-too" clause.

Still believe that one? hahahahaha

 

[Mach85ER]

P.s. not a good time to walk out on your job, with Comair pilots looking for work.


Good luck

Really? There are 1400 Comair Pilots, probably 700 FO's and 700 Captains flying jet maybe weighing. 90,000lbs or something. Let me know how well these guys will do in a moments notice flying an emergency divert into Cochabamba in a 600,000 lb B777.

Look at the votes, replacing AA pilots in MIA alone would take 1500 pilots. How many pilots at Comair, and then with DFW, LGA, ORD, LAX, DCA and BOS? Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to put it in perspective. AA wants to pay a A319 CA $140K/year. Good salary, but the reality is a certified AA Airbus Captain will be able to walk out the day after his Type Rating raide and collect almost $300K/year in Asia. These are hard numbers at what AA management are competing with, the worldwide pilot market. We've had pilots start to trickle out to Asia. I have notice the lacl of use of the term "market rates" by AA managers. What sucks is this condition doesn't translate to other employee groups, and changes the negotiating dynamic. I'd probably vote YES if I was in other workgroups.

 

[FWAAA]

Does the Term Sheet have Scope Protections?

Here's the comparison between the term sheet and the failed TA:

http://www.restructu...ison7.15.12.pdf

Unlimited domestic codesharing, RJs with more than 50 seats (and less than 89) operated by commuter airlines are limited to 50% of the mainline fleet count and various other changes.

 

[bigjets]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pilots-reject-contract-american-airlines-175617745.html


Some industry experts suggested that the pilots' vote would have little effect on US Airways' bid to force American into a merger, while others said it might make a merger more difficult.
"Mergers are more likely when somebody is on their knees, when they're desperate," said Adam Pilarski of airline consulting firm Avitas. "American is not in that state. I'm not sure this is a setback."
Robert Mann, an airline-industry consultant in Port Washington, N.Y., said that by going to the bankruptcy judge, American can get lower pilot costs and more flexibility to partner with other airlines than it would have gotten under the deal that the pilots rejected. That will boost AMR's profit margins and make it more valuable — and harder to acquire — he said.

 

[Overspeed]

If they impose a term sheet on the pilots and the pilot's walk, your yes vote does you no good when AA locks you out. Oh.... Didn't think about that did you before you bent over and grabbed your ankles? At least I can look people in the eye and say I voted no when it all turns to crap. How about a recall of local officers in 514? Any yes voters wanna bet me on the early opener? Or the prefunding refund? I have a picture in my head of all these yes voters who post on here with a blank look in their eyes as they are escorted off the base. "The TWU lied to me! Why didn't anybody tell me?" 25 measly votes is all we needed. Good luck in your next job. You just voted OUR careers away.

Pilots can't walk out

 

[bigjets]

Really? There are 1400 Comair Pilots, probably 700 FO's and 700 Captains flying jet maybe weighing. 90,000lbs or something. Let me know how well these guys will do in a moments notice flying an emergency divert into Cochabamba in a 600,000 lb B777.

Look at the votes, replacing AA pilots in MIA alone would take 1500 pilots. How many pilots at Comair, and then with DFW, LGA, ORD, LAX, DCA and BOS? Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to put it in perspective. AA wants to pay a A319 CA $140K/year. Good salary, but the reality is a certified AA Airbus Captain will be able to walk out the day after his Type Rating raide and collect almost $300K/year in Asia. These are hard numbers at what AA management are competing with, the worldwide pilot market. We've had pilots start to trickle out to Asia. I have notice the lacl of use of the term "market rates" by AA managers. What sucks is this condition doesn't translate to other employee groups, and changes the negotiating dynamic. I'd probably vote YES if I was in other workgroups.

Don't make the mistake and think you're not replaceable, there are a lot of pilot schools out there training the next a319 pilot, then AA will be just like a commuter airline, cheap pilots getting their hours before they move to Asia to make $300k. How long before AA makes you sign a contract to stay at AA or for the pilots to pay for their own training like the commuters do.

that said, I wish you guys good luck

 

[bigjets]

Someone needs to show where in the bankruptcy code that states consenual agreements are needed.
I sure as hell can't locate it.

It's like big foot everybody says it has to happen, but there's no proof, yes traditionally bankrupt airlines got consensual agreements before leaving bk, but no one has gone into bk with $4 billion either building that into $5 billion, and with the savings AA will have with an imposed contract no telling how much money they will have when they are ready to leave bk. Pretty big gamble with APA scope clause though. Hopefully it will pay off in the end.

 

[737823]

Congradulations guys. Youll enjoy deeper concessions than the TA and lower standards for all unionized pilots. As I've said before, management will prevail one way or another. AA has bargained in good faith and given APA ample opportunity to reach a consensual deal. Some here will undoubtably say AA hasn't only because you're in denial over the fact that the concessions are necessary.

AA hubs will hopefully soon like DL at ATL or UA at ORD with a plethora of RJs and relatively few mainline departures. Domestic codeshare will chip away more of AA's operations at BOS and other points in the network.

Good luck.

Josh