Any Exit By Us Airways Troubles Suburbs

[planejane]

have you looked into who has been the controlling political party in the area for over 30 years?
nothing seems to change in the area,yet time and again the same party keeps getting re-elected.

Your exactly right in your point and there is no immediate change for the future. If U should pull out of PIT, and a small percentage of employees remain, it would be a shame for those left there. Who do you think will pay the bills? It would be another paycut (in the form of taxes) to make up the difference in lost tax revenue. I don't want to be that poor soul. Even if U stays and some agreement on the debt is realized, - Again, who do you think will be saddled with paying the bill of this airport????? It's a no win situtation here, I think.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Chip,

You really crack me up with your educate the un-educated style of postings.

Everyone knows that PIT built the new terminal with U in mind...and I think everyone knows that they did so during the boom years...and yes indeed times have changed....Yet the areas economic shortfalls cannot stomach U's failures to the tune requested.

PIT was foolish to tie up all their eggs to one airline....and was even more foolish to do so with long ranging credit involved. This is a stark contrast to how CLT grew with both Eastern and Piedmont being heavily involved. Thankfully Easterns demise was shaken off easily with PI's explosive growth during the same boom-time. CLT was by far wiser in a pay as you grow scenario....but hindsight is indeed 20/20.

On to other subjects. I see the IND rumor as having some merit....and the merit only comes in the form of PIT actually closing?...which I question , and being tied to 5 years of free rent in IND , thats it's only real hook considering U's present condition.....IND should be fearfull of U's ability to survive at all...much less to the point that we actually start paying rent on those facilities , if it happens at all?

From an operational standpoint IND makes ZERO sense. IND is off the beaten path in terms of a route system mesh...and would in fact increase the number of roadtrips to the other focus cities and hubs for just about any type of problem...the frequency of flights in and out of IND is un-justifiable compared to the established hub in CLT..or even PIT.

Those whom think that Heavy Maintenance in both PIT and CLT are going to close in favor of IND alone are dreaming. U has a sweet deal with CLT in all respects...and un-like PIT it would take another trip to BK to get out from under the leases on the facilities there. This is something U would like to avoid completely.

Regarding people in general. The posts about being being this and that based on their geographic choice , I can say that thier are in fact "Jerks" everywhere.

I live in CLT..and this is a very diverse city..with few actual natives...so to say it's a CLT thing is a grosss over-simplification.

I have lived in LAX / PIT / FRA and a few places in Central America too....to make a blanket statement that an entire population in any given place is bad is ignorant at best.

I too have met the ignorant socially mal-adjusted from INT...I've met the same type everywhere else too.....seems to me that no particular place has a lock on friendly or hatefull people.....but then again it has a lot to do with the person making the evaluation too. I have no problems makng friends wherever life happens to take me....and in this business , it's a positive in my favor.

 

[MrAeroMan]

U's problems are a historical one that reached critical mass....and the common bond of all the problems stem from poor leadership and poor judgement.....those facts you can clearly hang around the necks of the folks that are supposed to be running this joint....but aren't !!....unless running it into the ground counts?

What I find interesting is how ALL the blame for the situation U is in gets placed directly on managements door and none of the blame is shared by the union leadership. For years the unions on the property had management over a barrel and that fact coupled with the extremely inept management style of Colodny and Schofield dug a hole even bankruptcy couldn't dig out of. Neither of those two had a backbone to stand up and say no to the demands of the unions and here we are years later with a huge mess.
Where was the foresight of the union leadership? Oh, that's right. They can only think from contract to contract rather than plan a long range strategy so both the company and it's employees can thrive but that takes foresight and insight. Unfortunately for the employees the only sight the union leadership has is hindsight and even then they need contacts to see that as it really is. <_<

 

[700UW]

MrAeroMan, seems like you need a little labor history at this company to set you straight.

1. Mechanic and Related Strike after 3 years of negotiating to reach a new agreement, company stalls negotiations, we strike for 5 days and agree to CONCESSIONS in 1992, YES CONCESSIONS, so how is that having the company over a barrel? Lose 50% of line mechanics due to this contract being ratified.

2. After 4 1/2 years from 1995 till 1999 Mechanic and Related have no WAGE increases due to the company stalling out negoiations once again, lets see 4 1/2 years and no retroactive pay to make up for what we lost? Paying more for insurance, how is that having the company over a barrel?

3. F/As coming down to strike before the company finally offers a last minute settlement.

4. Wolf and Ganwal threatening the pilots with downsizing and no Airbus order unless they accept a concessionary contract, thereby forcing more concessions on the pilots. How is that having the company over a barrel?

5. Siegel files chapter 11, screws all employees, not once but twice, Pilots lose their pensions, and now they want more!

Seems your interpitation is quite differant from us employees who have lived on the US Airways rollercoaster for years.

The common theme is Company stalling and blackmailing the employees has been going on for years, I don't see how you can say the unions have had the company over a barrel, it seems the exact oppisite to me.

And the last time I checked in my 15 years + of working for this company is the BOD, CEO and Executives made the decisions that have ruined this company, not the employees.

Lets say the BA alliance which we gave up LGW flights, Business Select, MetroJet, buying back over $1.5 Billion of worthless stock and numerous other bad business decisions, yep all of these made by the CEO and his Executives, not the rank and file employees.

 

[Bluestreak]

Marco,

Very nice flame bait.

 

[MrAeroMan]

700......Here we go with the concessionary bull that's been overplayed repeatedly. The question remains and one that you or none of your unionized cohorts can answer is where has been your response? All that's been done is point fingers at the other guy and accepting no blame. That's the problem....it's always someone else's fault. There's plenty of blame to go around and believe me management has made some doozies some of which you mentioned but the bull about the concessionary contracts just proves how out of touch the compensation was to begin with. Where the idea came that U's people should be the most highly compensated yet the airline remained the number 5 or 6 airline in the country is beyond me. I guess it came from one of those high priced union leaders without any real vision.

 

[PITbull]

U's problems are a historical one that reached critical mass....and the common bond of all the problems stem from poor leadership and poor judgement.....those facts you can clearly hang around the necks of the folks that are supposed to be running this joint....but aren't !!....unless running it into the ground counts?

What I find interesting is how ALL the blame for the situation U is in gets placed directly on managements door and none of the blame is shared by the union leadership. For years the unions on the property had management over a barrel and that fact coupled with the extremely inept management style of Colodny and Schofield dug a hole even bankruptcy couldn't dig out of. Neither of those two had a backbone to stand up and say no to the demands of the unions and here we are years later with a huge mess.
Where was the foresight of the union leadership? Oh, that's right. They can only think from contract to contract rather than plan a long range strategy so both the company and it's employees can thrive but that takes foresight and insight. Unfortunately for the employees the only sight the union leadership has is hindsight and even then they need contacts to see that as it really is. <_<

Aeroman,

You have NO CLUE about contract negotiations. NONE, ZIPO, Natta. Anything negotiated through the years, came at a price. Whether it was wages, benefits or work rules given up for other improvements, it was bought and paid for by the memberships.

No business gives anything away for free, just to be "nice". Especially to the unionized workers! There is no such animal that exists. So stop whining about union leadership, they do not develop company business models, MANAGEMENT DOES!

PS: Here's an answer for you.....the workers of U have been paid a "respectable" wage, and in return have worked their butts off and have remained loyal to this airline; their airline. Their employement has allowed them a decent standard of living (not wealthy) but decent. Has allowed them to maintain good-health through affordable medical benefits, wages to support themselves and their familes, educate their families and put money away for retirment. In exchange, the employees have made this job with this airline their careers.

However, with this current management, those conditions have changed so acutely, and even so, the employees still maintain their pride and loyalty. With all that has been given up, years and years of negotiated language, all in an instant, and THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM CANNOT TURN A PROFIT OR CREATE A BUSINESS MODEL THAT CREATES A DEMAND FOR OUR PRODUCT.

Now, what part of that equation is the union leadership's fault?

 

[lavMON]

700......Here we go with the concessionary bull that's been overplayed repeatedly. The question remains and one that you or none of your unionized cohorts can answer is where has been your response? All that's been done is point fingers at the other guy and accepting no blame. That's the problem....it's always someone else's fault. There's plenty of blame to go around and believe me management has made some doozies some of which you mentioned but the bull about the concessionary contracts just proves how out of touch the compensation was to begin with. Where the idea came that U's people should be the most highly compensated yet the airline remained the number 5 or 6 airline in the country is beyond me. I guess it came from one of those high priced union leaders without any real vision.

HEY DOOD...me pocket books been quite light since ninety too bro-man.
as far dee IAM...we gave at dee table Mon...eets written me freind.
so pleese doan geev me dee crock aboud dee concesions Mon.
have a nice day me freind...

 

[700UW]

MrAeroman,

How can it be bull it if I have given concessions for 12 out of 15 years of employement?

Why can't you respond item for item like I have done?

Can you not fathom that management runs this company, not the unions or employees?

Ask our non-contract employees what they were forced to give up in 1992?

Once again it seems like another anti-union person.

 

[ClueByFour]

On to other subjects. I see the IND rumor as having some merit....and the merit only comes in the form of PIT actually closing?...which I question , and being tied to 5 years of free rent in IND , thats it's only real hook considering U's present condition.....IND should be fearfull of U's ability to survive at all...much less to the point that we actually start paying rent on those facilities , if it happens at all?

From an operational standpoint IND makes ZERO sense. IND is off the beaten path in terms of a route system mesh...and would in fact increase the number of roadtrips to the other focus cities and hubs for just about any type of problem...the frequency of flights in and out of IND is un-justifiable compared to the established hub in CLT..or even PIT.

AOG is right.

IND is an interesting thought, however, consider a few things:

1. They are smarting from being burned once by UA. What makes you think that the area wants to give a sweetheart deal to another airline coming out of Chapter 11?

2. U will suffer massive revenue losses moving to IND. The O&D is lower than PIT.

3. US has no major LCC presence at PIT. At IND, you get ATA as the incumbent #1 carrier, and LUV, to boot.

 

[delldude]

CLUE:how about just a maintenance base??consolidate operations??

 

[MrAeroMan]

Aeroman,

You have NO CLUE about contract negotiations. NONE, ZIPO, Natta. Anything negotiated through the years, came at a price. Whether it was wages, benefits or work rules given up for other improvements, it was bought and paid for by the memberships.

No business gives anything away for free, just to be "nice". Especially to the unionized workers! There is no such animal that exists. So stop whining about union leadership, they do not develop company business models, MANAGEMENT DOES!

PS: Here's an answer for you.....the workers of U have been paid a "respectable" wage, and in return have worked their butts off and have remained loyal to this airline; their airline. Their employement has allowed them a decent standard of living (not wealthy) but decent. Has allowed them to maintain good-health through affordable medical benefits, wages to support themselves and their familes, educate their families and put money away for retirment. In exchange, the employees have made this job with this airline their careers.

However, with this current management, those conditions have changed so acutely, and even so, the employees still maintain their pride and loyalty. With all that has been given up, years and years of negotiated language, all in an instant, and THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM CANNOT TURN A PROFIT OR CREATE A BUSINESS MODEL THAT CREATES A DEMAND FOR OUR PRODUCT.

Now, what part of that equation is the union leadership's fault?

I can see what clue you and your minions have about contract negotiations Pitbull. It's as evident as that chip on your shoulder. What you can't stand is when someone stands up and points out that the whole debacle is not just one sides fault. It takes two and you and I both know the unions have just as much blame to shoulder as the management. The difference is I can admit it and you can't. You're fine as long as it's pile on management but as soon as someone points out the mistakes made by union leadership your hair stands straight out and it's off to the terminal to hand out leaflets. The one that has no clue is you.

PS....Drive careful....I hear it's slippery out there.

 

[delldude]

Aeroman,

You have NO CLUE about contract negotiations. NONE, ZIPO, Natta. Anything negotiated through the years, came at a price. Whether it was wages, benefits or work rules given up for other improvements, it was bought and paid for by the memberships.

No business gives anything away for free, just to be "nice". Especially to the unionized workers! There is no such animal that exists. So stop whining about union leadership, they do not develop company business models, MANAGEMENT DOES!

PS: Here's an answer for you.....the workers of U have been paid a "respectable" wage, and in return have worked their butts off and have remained loyal to this airline; their airline. Their employement has allowed them a decent standard of living (not wealthy) but decent. Has allowed them to maintain good-health through affordable medical benefits, wages to support themselves and their familes, educate their families and put money away for retirment. In exchange, the employees have made this job with this airline their careers.

However, with this current management, those conditions have changed so acutely, and even so, the employees still maintain their pride and loyalty. With all that has been given up, years and years of negotiated language, all in an instant, and THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM CANNOT TURN A PROFIT OR CREATE A BUSINESS MODEL THAT CREATES A DEMAND FOR OUR PRODUCT.

Now, what part of that equation is the union leadership's fault?

I can see what clue you and your minions have about contract negotiations Pitbull. It's as evident as that chip on your shoulder. What you can't stand is when someone stands up and points out that the whole debacle is not just one sides fault. It takes two and you and I both know the unions have just as much blame to shoulder as the management. The difference is I can admit it and you can't. You're fine as long as it's pile on management but as soon as someone points out the mistakes made by union leadership your hair stands straight out and it's off to the terminal to hand out leaflets. The one that has no clue is you.

PS....Drive careful....I hear it's slippery out there.

mraeroman:so you are putting the blame at our feet for the negotiated misgivings of past company labor relation "professionals"?
remember the company agreed to the many contract "misgivings"you seem to take exception to.
i'd suggest you vent your whining diatribe at the negotiation professionals who gave the unions these deplorable provisions to live with.and remember....company had all the time in the world during BK and once again the "corporate professionals" agreed to what was given to each labor group.so who is the problem here,ebeneezer?

 

[MrAeroMan]

MrAeroman,

How can it be bull it if I have given concessions for 12 out of 15 years of employement?

Why can't you respond item for item like I have done?

Can you not fathom that management runs this company, not the unions or employees?

Ask our non-contract employees what they were forced to give up in 1992?

Once again it seems like another anti-union person.

I was there in '92. I had my pension ripped from me not to mention all the other crap that came down from CCY. I lived it and grew from it. I packed it in a year later and it's been the best move of my life.
I'm not anti-union nor am I pro-company. What I am is Anti-stupid and Pro-helpyourself. I can't stand to sit and hear someone blame someone or something for the problems in their life or job. All that is ever on here is how bad management did this or how bad they screwed that up or how we're in the situation because of management. That may be partly true and yes, they have made huge mistakes but so has the union leadership. Why don't the unions band together and come up with their own business plan? Present it to the company and see what the response is. I know, it's never been done before but why not try being a little proactive?? It sure beats what lies ahead.
I've many friends and family still working at U and for their sake I hope U makes it but I have some serious doubts as do they. I wouldn't be a bit surprised that in one or two years U will be totally gone and pieces of it will reside at other airlines. Unfortunately, the only pieces that'll be left is the CLT hub and the Shuttle both run by other entities.

 

[PITbull]

Aeroman,

You have NO CLUE about contract negotiations. NONE, ZIPO, Natta. Anything negotiated through the years, came at a price. Whether it was wages, benefits or work rules given up for other improvements, it was bought and paid for by the memberships.

No business gives anything away for free, just to be "nice". Especially to the unionized workers! There is no such animal that exists. So stop whining about union leadership, they do not develop company business models, MANAGEMENT DOES!

PS: Here's an answer for you.....the workers of U have been paid a "respectable" wage, and in return have worked their butts off and have remained loyal to this airline; their airline. Their employement has allowed them a decent standard of living (not wealthy) but decent. Has allowed them to maintain good-health through affordable medical benefits, wages to support themselves and their familes, educate their families and put money away for retirment. In exchange, the employees have made this job with this airline their careers.

However, with this current management, those conditions have changed so acutely, and even so, the employees still maintain their pride and loyalty. With all that has been given up, years and years of negotiated language, all in an instant, and THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM CANNOT TURN A PROFIT OR CREATE A BUSINESS MODEL THAT CREATES A DEMAND FOR OUR PRODUCT.

Now, what part of that equation is the union leadership's fault?

I can see what clue you and your minions have about contract negotiations Pitbull. It's as evident as that chip on your shoulder. What you can't stand is when someone stands up and points out that the whole debacle is not just one sides fault. It takes two and you and I both know the unions have just as much blame to shoulder as the management. The difference is I can admit it and you can't. You're fine as long as it's pile on management but as soon as someone points out the mistakes made by union leadership your hair stands straight out and it's off to the terminal to hand out leaflets. The one that has no clue is you.

PS....Drive careful....I hear it's slippery out there.

Aeroman,

Again, your narrow, limited mind still thinks U's entire business plan should be shouldered on the employees and what they can give up. Actually, you have the audacity to say this now, after two major sacrificing concessions by the employees in 1 years time, along with 20,000 jobs gone so your butt can STILL remain on this property.

Union leaders shoulder no blame. NONE. Obviously, you are feeling guilty for your pay check. My perception of you and your comments leads me to believe you must not have deserved the wage you received. We do have few "slack offs".

Since you feel you've been overpaid through the years, you can always donate some of the excess pay you have there to management. Feel free towrite them out a check. That takes no negotiations.