An Open Letter from Capt. Prater to all AAA and AWA Pilots

[Pi brat]

Almost as interesting as this one:

"...would invite immediate and endless litigation by West pilots. The new union would likely spend the first years of its existence, and a major share of its limited resources, defending itself in court, and not pursuing enhancements to the CBA. A loss in court would expose that union and its members to crippling damages awards."

You have already given up half your profit sharing to west pilots - do you want them to take the rest and then some?

Callsign-ALPA brought me the B scale, loss of my pension, and the NIC award. I will take my chances with another union. My card is sent, I won't predict the out come.

If this fight continues, there will be no profit for anyone. Just remember, we are in the same boat, just opposite ends.

What I really think needs to happen is for us all to stop fighting with each other, take care of our customers and let each side do what they think they need to do to sort this thing out.

 

[EastUS]

Little boy, huh? You sure about that ol wise one? Oh, and I'm positive you will man up to your agreement/wager, just like binding arbitration What is utterly pathetic is you think you are better than everyone else who refuses to accept your "challenge" of skills.

Next step, pull your head out and breath. Reinsert. Repeat.

Cactus: "Oh, and I'm positive you will man up to your agreement/wager, just like binding arbitration "
That'd be an unequivocal YES. Start with a personal message if interested. Details and schedules can be worked out You may take your own cranial insertion as a guidline per comparing a challenge to some BS about arbitration. Flying ain't lawyer BS, or any test of typing skills, who's got the biggest mouth/etc.
I'm an often fully irritating, and sometimes just plain arrogant bastige that's tossed out a lot of inflammatory stuff on the boards after the St Nic Fiasco surfaced, and I make no bones about it. I'm fine with backing it up...Isn't such the entire point of any challenges? Any idiots can drivel about on keyboards...as I've seen abundant proof of from you westies.

As per your: "Little boy, huh? You sure about that ol wise one?" I'm thinking that you also have a military background..which seemingly makes things somewhat "fair", so you are indeed cordially invited to dazzle me with your skills and take the benefits of the stakes, if victorious. You would also gain bragging rights all over the forum. No one would even be actually shooting...other than a few grand..how bad could it go for you? Don't forget that I'm also "weaker and slower"...remember from your initial challenge to pit your "skills"/etc..which you immediately discounted as not actually being such?

My initial positon was one of seeking reasonable compromise, an anything by way of a solution to this mess. All such was met with "Nyaah Nyaah" ridicule from the west. What's totally disgusted me over the last months is the overt sense of "entitlement"/AWA saved you/You OWE us everything/we don't care how many years you've all been doing this/just Gimme Gimme Gimme/etc. All this has been spewed forth without the tiniest bit of respect for "time served"/experience/etc..nor the hardships so long endured by the east, without which there wouldn't even exist any east flying to try to grab.

Note the fine job Alpo's done marrying our two factions together into a big happy family.



PS: May I sadly assume that there won't be any "Thank You" cards coming from the west for the profit sharing then?

 

[b737fo]

The ball is in the AWA pilots court becuase if they continue to defy the EC and Rice Committee then imposition could occur in the not-to-distant future.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Well that sure sounds a little one sided USA320. The ball is also in the AAA pilots' court considering they are now defying the EC and Rice Committee by not making their JNC members available to work with National to "develop consensual approaches" as directed by the July EC resolution.

 

[fatherabraham]

FA,
Let me try to address the attrition concern with you in a “civilâ€￾ manner. Before I get to that, I must clarify what the real issues are because there are numerous twists to the east arguments. The east pilot group is very “seniorâ€￾ in terms of longevity with the Company and thus have claimed to be disenfranchised by being placed on a seniority list next to “apprenticeâ€￾ pilots (those with much less years longevity). East pilots also brought a lot of attrition to the merger, but now feel they lost it all with the new seniority list. Others yet further argue that AWA pilots had no expectation to ever fly wide bodies and so should never be entitled to fly them. Are those the “issuesâ€￾ that we know exist today?

I have answer/solution (attrition problem) of my own to offer, but we must first start from a position of mutual agreements as the premise to the final solution - I’ll start. Do you agree the #1 pilot on the AWA and US seniority list occupy the highest seniority position at their respective carriers? Easy question I know, but we must build with blocks of knowledge and mutual understandings before logical deductions, and thus conclusions, can be made.

I appologize in advance if I'm not able to respond immediately to your post, I'm moving this weekend and trying to tidy up my old place before my renters move in Monday.

'Callsign_Cactus'
Ok I will give it a go. I also spend way less time here than the regulars and far too much than I should, so no quick responses from me as well.
"Of course" is my answer to your question.
I must caution that I will not respond to generalizations that are impossible to prove and subjective as well like your first paragraph.
Plz just address the attrition problem that is holding all apart. Have read all posted to date and NO awa argument/justification of Nic award on East attrition holds water IMO. So please do not repeat ANYTHING previously posted on this subject in any thread.

FA

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Do you honestly believe things would have been different for the US Airways pilots with another Union? You know the old sayings, hindsight is 20/20, and the grass is always greener...I think all of the unfortunate situations the US Airways pilots have endured is mostly because of a failed business plan/model of old US dating back to the early 90's.

I have friends in east currently employed and furloughed that I talk to frequently and honestly tell them I am concerned for their future as well as mine because of the path chosen by the east MEC. They agree, but feel there is no other alternative – a feeling of inevitable destruction and hopelessness. I tell them it does not have to be that way, that there are solutions, but they feel helpless individually to do anything.

As much as we hate ALPA, I think at this point they are the lesser of all evils. Keep with the JNC process and in the end I think we can find resolution to this mess. The worst case is east votes down any CBA for the next 5 + years.

Callsign-ALPA brought me the B scale, loss of my pension, and the NIC award. I will take my chances with another union. My card is sent, I won't predict the out come.

If this fight continues, there will be no profit for anyone. Just remember, we are in the same boat, just opposite ends.

What I really think needs to happen is for us all to stop fighting with each other, take care of our customers and let each side do what they think they need to do to sort this thing out.

 

[AWA320]

PS: May I sadly assume that there won't be any "Thank You" cards coming from the west for the profit sharing then?

Sure just as soon as the east thanks us for givving up our attrition and a/c orders to give new life to the east!!!

 

[EastUS]

Sure just as soon as the east thanks us for givving up our attrition and a/c orders to give new life to the east!!!

I see. Thanks for the reminder of how you "saved us" I sometimes lose all proper perspective on the true nobility of the AWA "Righteous Position"
Funny thing though: Don't I recall your blathering on about how you would "gladly" give back the profit sharing if we just bend over for the Nic treatment, during another one of your incitefull diatribes? I can only assume that your less-than-ten-pages-in-length responses tonight are a sad result of how crushed you must feel after reading Prater's latest? Unlike yourself, and others pure of heart out west..he's actually frightened of the decert movement.

PS: I distinctly recall that when east attrition was earlier addressed by you..it had turned into "your attrition became our attrition" for the west....How is this any different? Aren't we all one big happy family with shared attrition? Didn't Nic and Alpo make everything just perfect for you guys/gals? Do you actually even have "attrition" out west? Can/could it even be remotely possible that things aren't quite as rose colored out there without the cooperation of the east "sheep"?

Have a nice evening.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Well if I don’t know exactly what the issues are, how can I respond to you? I gave it my best shot at trying to determine what they are, but if you just want me to respond to just the attrition, ok then. There is no justification for "stealing" your attrition. I posted analysis months ago on the attrition and my opinion is you should keep it since it is essentially the same as the west, relatively speaking. I must clarify though, the attrition that interests most pilots is captain attrition in group 2 or larger aircraft, and this is where AWA and US are relatively the same. The rest (FO & FUR) is of no concern to 98% of AWA pilots. Assuming we all understand what relative means, we each bring attrition to be shared by all. I am so certain that there will be little or no impact to the east attrition upgrade opportunities that I think an easy part of the solution is to guarantee the east by using captain upgrade ratios to ensure east pilots capture “theirâ€￾ attrition. The same can be done in PHX and LAS, which I obviously will benefit from.

Next question: Now that we both agree the #1 pilots on the seniority lists both carry the highest seniority position, do you agree that both carry equal weight in exercising seniority rights at their respective carriers?

'Callsign_Cactus'
Ok I will give it a go. I also spend way less time here than the regulars and far too much than I should, so no quick responses from me as well.
"Of course" is my answer to your question.
I must caution that I will not respond to generalizations that are impossible to prove and subjective as well like your first paragraph.
Plz just address the attrition problem that is holding all apart. Have read all posted to date and NO awa argument/justification of Nic award on East attrition holds water IMO. So please do not repeat ANYTHING previously posted on this subject in any thread.

FA

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

You see, East, that's the difference between you and me - I have no reason to prove myself to you or anyone. As for you, you really need to establish some self-confidence and recognize people will respect you more when you start respecting yourself. At times you have good points, but most of the time you lash out at people you perceive to show a lack of respect.

I think if you knew me, my past would speak for itself, as I'm sure yours would too.

As per your: "Little boy, huh? You sure about that ol wise one?" I'm thinking that you also have a military background..which seemingly makes things somewhat "fair", so you are indeed cordially invited to dazzle me with your skills and take the benefits of the stakes, if victorious. You would also gain bragging rights all over the forum. No one would even be actually shooting...other than a few grand..how bad could it go for you? Don't forget that I'm also "weaker and slower"...remember from your initial challenge to pit your "skills"/etc..which you immediately discounted as not actually being such?

That's too bad, because I have spent most of my time responding to flaming posts like yours. I try to engage in meaningful discussion, but I get an FU right back - so be it.

BTW, I never asked for one damn thing from east pilots, never expected anything, nor deserving, so don't try to gain some moral high ground by alluding to how ungrateful I've been over the profit sharing.

My initial positon was one of seeking reasonable compromise, an anything by way of a solution to this mess. All such was met with "Nyaah Nyaah" ridicule from the west. What's totally disgusted me over the last months is the overt sense of "entitlement"/AWA saved you/You OWE us everything/we don't care how many years you've all been doing this/just Gimme Gimme Gimme/etc. All this has been spewed forth without the tiniest bit of respect for "time served"/experience/etc..nor the hardships so long endured by the east, without which there wouldn't even exist any east flying to try to grab.

Note the fine job Alpo's done marrying our two factions together into a big happy family.
PS: May I sadly assume that there won't be any "Thank You" cards coming from the west for the profit sharing then?

 

[EastUS]

You see, East, that's the difference between you and me - I have no reason to prove myself to you or anyone. As for you, you really need to establish some self-confidence and recognize people will respect you more when you start respecting yourself.

"I have no reason to prove myself to you or anyone" In other words = you're all talk...OK Unbelievable..you're freakin' logo's a squadron patch.
'Callsign_Cactus' :"Oh, and I'm positive you will man up to your agreement/wager, just like binding arbitration" Ummm...yeah; minimum five grand for stakes if that's acceptable.

HeyZuess..why does the BS get so thick around here whenever a westie gets called on his proliferation of the same?

Perhaps you might reconsider? Think of it as a merciful way of helping a troubled, and confused soul "establish some self-confidence" ..I'm left crushed by your earlier observations about my being "weaker and slower"..sniffle/sob/etc....failing a proper "group hug"...I just don't know what I'll do....You'd be performing a humanitarian service to the elderly...I could learn by example of how to play better with others so that they'd respect me....and it'd be fun to take your cash

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Nah, you're not worth my time, and you're full of crap, which is a good segue for my closure with you...place head back in rectum.

I'm going to eliminate your posts and thoughts permanently – can I get an amen.

In other words = you're all talk...OK

Perhaps you might reconsider? Think of it as a merciful way of helping a troubled, and confused soul "establish some self-confidence" ..and it'd be fun to take your cash.

 

[EastUS]

Nah, you're not worth my time, and you're full of crap, which is a good segue for my closure with you...place head back in rectum.

I'm going to eliminate your posts and thoughts permanently – can I get an amen.

So be it. It's been a slice boy. I'm sure that "The Bounty Hunters" would be really proud...Surprising behavior from a Hornet guy.

Amen

 

[SkyRat]

I am Impressed!!!

Started this thread, and it has gotten out of control... East against West... Please no more personal attacks...

Lets go straight to the "Issues"...

ALPA is WORRIED about the decert movement from the East. I don't blame them. But what will that change? Nothing.

Personal attacks? Pathetic.

Who saved who? Irrelevant.

DFR Lawsuits? They will be there.

Bottom LINE, we are all in this mess together. Nicolau, Dugweiser... It does not mean CRAP, if we don't take advantage of the "Synergies"...

Lets get a 20+ Longevity contract w/ FO rates in the 100-120s. And respective rates for CPTs...

Can we capitalize on the state of the Industry NOW???

Before the next downturn? Next merger?

Tired of the East Cry Babies and the West WE won attitude...

Move on Biatches and lets achieve a CONTRACT!!!

Rant off!

GL

 

[BottomFeeder]

Sure just as soon as the east thanks us for givving up our attrition and a/c orders to give new life to the east!!!

Tell us how much "givving" you would have gave up in Bankruptcy. Rumor has it, since the West has had 6 quarters of losses they will wear a big L on their hats.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Personal attacks? Pathetic.


Tired of the East Cry Babies and the West WE won attitude...

Move on Biatches and lets achieve a CONTRACT!!!

Rant off!

GL

SkyRat,

We are moving on in the East.

We gave you profit sharing, increased 401K and now you want our attrition, widebodies and higher percentage of C/O seats. Seem right?

Guys that would have retired in the 1 to 50 range now retire at almost 900 on the seniority. Seem right?

You got a 3% raise in Jan and did you offer it to split it with the East. Seem right?

Sorry the CONTRACT will not be happening.

Signed
Only Pimps no Hoes