An Open Letter from Capt. Prater to all AAA and AWA Pilots

[EastUS]

AWA320:"The final straw is being drawn as we type. The company is done with this non sense and have stated that they will move aircraft as they see fit in order to keep the airline profitable."

So you are saying the east pilots should expect the west aircraft to be arriving soon since the east is where the profits are being made?

Actually?..I'd have to also assume that they'll send them out east for the additional reasons constantly noted, and loudly trumpeted by jubilant westies, that we're idiots living with LOA93...and we work cheap

 

[Pi brat]

"zero pilots on furlough and we WERE not returning a/c!! We had attrition that was given up for this merger. We had career expectations that were moving in the right direction."

AWA320, Doug Parker is on video telling one of your 3 year pilots that he was much better off with this merger than without. He said without you would have returned airplanes and he would have been furloughed. Why do you choose to ignore this? Oh wait, I know.

 

[fatherabraham]

Ok FA lets discuss that. You bring up attrition and career expectation. I have said this time and time again that AAA was NOT hiring AAA was NOT taking delivery of new a/c AAA was in fact returning larg a/c in favor of RJ's. Had there been any REAL attrition they would not have had 33% of their pilot force furloughed!!! Now AWA, we WERE hiring 20 to 30 pilots a month, we WERE taaking deliver of new air buses and we WERE growing! We had none, zero pilots on furlough and we WERE not returning a/c!! We had attrition that was given up for this merger. We had career expectations that were moving in the right direction.

The east pilots were helped with not hurt by this merger. They maintain the same realitive position with the new list that they held on their old one. What they want is someone to take the place and suffer what they suffered over the years. I feel for them but I am not willing to live that pain as a result of a merger!!!

DOH was at one time a part of the merger policy but has not been since the 1990's!! 50% plus 1 made the decision and if AAA didn't like it, if any carrier didn't like they have more than ample time to change unions. They did not!! Nor did they make any claims as to the arbitration panel being incompetent PRIOR to the arbitration.

AWA320,

Ok FA lets discuss that.
All my common sense told me a waste of time trying to reason with you in a civil way. But the eternal optimist I tried. Over 600 post and I have yet to see you address my question w/o the usual retoric. I say again, have read your ideas. Got that? Now please in one last vain attempt I will ask you to respond to the East attrition problem for the East guy. Have heard the million excuses that one attempts to justify for this OBVIOUS windfall bestowed by Nic to the AWA pilot. Now try and truthfully discuss as your post started. Did ya read my post before posting above?

FA
FA

 

[EastUS]

AWA320,

Ok FA lets discuss that.
All my common sense told me a waste of time trying to reason with you in a civil way. But the eternal optimist I tried. Over 600 post and I have yet to see you address my question w/o the usual retoric. I say again, have read your ideas. Got that? Now please in one last vain attempt I will ask you to respond to the East attrition problem for the East guy. Have heard the million excuses that one attempts to justify for this OBVIOUS windfall bestowed by Nic to the AWA pilot. Now try and truthfully discuss as your post started. Did ya read my post before posting above?

FA
FA

I think that you will be waiting a long time for any reasoned response to this seemingly simple question.

He actually has noted his position in a far earlier post = AWA320:"your attrition became our attrition"...a pretty standard variation on the AWA saviour fantasy that "entitles" them to EVERYTHING/etc, plus icing on the everything.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

FA,
Let me try to address the attrition concern with you in a “civilâ€￾ manner. Before I get to that, I must clarify what the real issues are because there are numerous twists to the east arguments. The east pilot group is very “seniorâ€￾ in terms of longevity with the Company and thus have claimed to be disenfranchised by being placed on a seniority list next to “apprenticeâ€￾ pilots (those with much less years longevity). East pilots also brought a lot of attrition to the merger, but now feel they lost it all with the new seniority list. Others yet further argue that AWA pilots had no expectation to ever fly wide bodies and so should never be entitled to fly them. Are those the “issuesâ€￾ that we know exist today?

I have answer/solution (attrition problem) of my own to offer, but we must first start from a position of mutual agreements as the premise to the final solution - I’ll start. Do you agree the #1 pilot on the AWA and US seniority list occupy the highest seniority position at their respective carriers? Easy question I know, but we must build with blocks of knowledge and mutual understandings before logical deductions, and thus conclusions, can be made.

I appologize in advance if I'm not able to respond immediately to your post, I'm moving this weekend and trying to tidy up my old place before my renters move in Monday.

AWA320,

Ok FA lets discuss that.
All my common sense told me a waste of time trying to reason with you in a civil way. But the eternal optimist I tried. Over 600 post and I have yet to see you address my question w/o the usual retoric. I say again, have read your ideas. Got that? Now please in one last vain attempt I will ask you to respond to the East attrition problem for the East guy. Have heard the million excuses that one attempts to justify for this OBVIOUS windfall bestowed by Nic to the AWA pilot. Now try and truthfully discuss as your post started. Did ya read my post before posting above?

FA
FA

 

[Pi brat]

This was the most interesting thing to me in old John's letter:

"A new union would almost certainly inherit the existing collective bargaining agreements, including the transition agreement and seniority award, and would have to get the company to agree to reject the award."

Almost Certainly? Good enough for me! What did I do with that card?

 

[USA320Pilot]

I wonder why John Prater wrote a letter regarding decertification and I wonder who got his attention? It is my understanding that USAPA has set a target date of the first of the month to file the NMB Form 1, which is an application for a representational election and the required paperwork for the IRS.

In my opinion, the overwhelming majority of East pilots are going to vote to throw ALPA off of the property, and due to single carrier status, ALPA could be cone from both the East and West property by the first of the year.

What everybody needs to understand is that the East pilots have tremendous solidarity, the pilots would rather live under LOA 93 and not implement the Nicolau Award than to agree to a joint contract. The ball is in the AWA pilots court becuase if they continue to defy the EC and Rice Committee then imposition could occur in the not-to-distant future.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Almost as interesting as this one:

"...would invite immediate and endless litigation by West pilots. The new union would likely spend the first years of its existence, and a major share of its limited resources, defending itself in court, and not pursuing enhancements to the CBA. A loss in court would expose that union and its members to crippling damages awards."

You have already given up half your profit sharing to west pilots - do you want them to take the rest and then some?

This was the most interesting thing to me in old John's letter:

"A new union would almost certainly inherit the existing collective bargaining agreements, including the transition agreement and seniority award, and would have to get the company to agree to reject the award."

Almost Certainly? Good enough for me! What did I do with that card?

 

[traderjake]

If we were to get separate operations would any airline want to merge with us in the future?

Can we survive alone after the next round of consolidation?

If we decertify ALPA do we have more or less protection if merge with another ALPA carrier, say United?

Considering the age of the East pilots, do they care if we have a company or jobs ten years from now?

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Result of latest MEC resolution and a "decertification" = Fish in a barrel

I wonder why John Prater wrote a letter regarding decertification and I wonder who got his attention? It is my understanding that USAPA has set a target date of the first of the month to file the NMB Form 1, which is an application for a representational election and the required paperwork for the IRS.

In my opinion, the overwhelming majority of East pilots are going to vote to throw ALPA off of the property, and due to single carrier status, ALPA could be cone from both the East and West property by the first of the year.

What everybody needs to understand is that the East pilots have tremendous solidarity, the pilots would rather live under LOA 93 and not implement the Nicolau Award than to agree to a joint contract. The ball is in the AWA pilots court becuase if they continue to defy the EC and Rice Committee then imposition could occur in the not-to-distant future.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Hawkhunter wrote:

•Secured 35.8 percent aggregate pay increases (40.8 percent for A330 pilots) in 2001/2002 under the “parity plus 1%â€￾ provision negotiated in the 1997 contract.
•Assisted the MEC in developing a target defined contribution plan in 2003 that, at the time, provided 27 percent of pay in average contributions and up to 100 percent of pay for some. This was made necessary by your MEC’s agreeing with management’s demand to terminate the pilot DB plan as a prerequisite for the airline to exit bankruptcy.
•Spearheaded exhaustive efforts to enact pension legislation that would have restored funding of the DB plan. While that legislation gained 103 cosponsors, it failed due to tepid support from US Airways management and outright opposition from the administration. We will continue to fight for a new version of the Akaka amendment, to increase your PBGC benefits significantly.

Wow, look at everything ALPA has done for you east guys. And you want to decertify?!?!

Ingrates.

Not sure where Prater came up with the 35.8% figure. As I remember, the arbitrator conceded we were due that amount but only awarded 17% and change. He said the former was just way out of line. Still waiting for the rest

Wish I had a vote on the DB plan. Another reason for dumping ALPA. In fact wish I had a vote on a lot of things.

As for the Akaka amendment. One Sen. flat out told the ALPA people this legislation didn't have a chance in H..L. And my House Rep. (Who is a high school friend) said the same thing to me privately. But at least the PBGC gives me some options that others don't have. Like shutting the doors to this POS.

So yes, I would really like to decertify ALPA. Seems all good things take time.

 

[EastUS]

Almost as interesting as this one:

"...would invite immediate and endless litigation by West pilots. The new union would likely spend the first years of its existence, and a major share of its limited resources, defending itself in court, and not pursuing enhancements to the CBA. A loss in court would expose that union and its members to crippling damages awards."

You have already given up half your profit sharing to west pilots - do you want them to take the rest and then some?

"...would invite immediate and endless litigation by West pilots." Assuming decertification in the east: What makes you even imagine that the west would/could remain Alpo? Let's actually acknowledge, if even for a moment, that the east has "the numbers" for any overall voting issues.

"You have already given up half your profit sharing to west pilots - do you want them to take the rest and then some?" Ya' know?...I couldn't find a better one-liner so perfectly indicative of west "thinking" = "you're already hosed, and you were complete idiots to give us the profit sharing, or anything for that matter...don't allow us any opportunity to try and steal more from you because we certainly will try"

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

No arguing with you, East, you have finally figured us out. You're better pilots than us, better thinkers, higher morals, and on and on. You win, East, now go be all the man you can be, and take your head and stick it up your own ass. Putz

"...would invite immediate and endless litigation by West pilots." Assuming decertification in the east: What makes you even imagine that the west would/could remain Alpo? Let's actually acknowledge, if even for a moment, that the east has "the numbers" for any overall voting issues.

"You have already given up half your profit sharing to west pilots - do you want them to take the rest and then some?" Ya' know?...I couldn't find a better one-liner so perfectly indicative of west "thinking" = "you're already hosed, and you were complete idiots to give us the profit sharing, or anything for that matter...don't allow us any opportunity to try and steal more from you because we certainly will try"

 

[EastUS]

No arguing with you, East, you have finally figured us out. You're better pilots than us, better thinkers, higher morals, and on and on. You win, East, now go be all the man you can be, and take your head and stick it up your own ass. Putz

"East, you have finally figured us out." Sigh..yeah..but until recently I still had some fantastic notions of working things out. I'm an often fully irritating, and sometimes just plain arrogant bastige that's tossed out a lot of inflammatory stuff on the boards after the St Nic Fiasco surfaced, and I make no bones about it. My initial positon was one of seeking reasonable compromise, an anything by way of a solution to this mess. All such was met with "Nyaah Nyaah" ridicule from the west. What's totally disgusted me over the last months is the overt sense of "entitlement"/AWA saved you/You OWE us everything/we don't care how many years you've all been doing this/just Gimme Gimme Gimme/etc. All this has been spewed forth without the tiniest bit of respect for "time served"/experience/etc..nor the hardships so long endured by the east, without which there wouldn't even exist any east flying to try to grab.


"take your head and stick it up your own ass. Putz"
My previous wager's always open boy

Note the fine job Alpo's done marrying our two factions together into a big happy family.

PS: May I sadly assume that there won't be any "Thank You" cards coming from the west for the profit sharing then?

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Little boy, huh? You sure about that ol wise one? Oh, and I'm positive you will man up to your agreement/wager, just like binding arbitration What is utterly pathetic is you think you are better than everyone else who refuses to accept your "challenge" of skills.

Next step, pull your head out and breath. Reinsert. Repeat.

"East, you have finally figured us out." Sigh..yeah..but until recently I still had some fantastic notions of working things out.
"take your head and stick it up your own ass. Putz"
My previous wager's always open little boy