An Open Letter from Capt. Prater to all AAA and AWA Pilots

[a320av8r]

Our career expectations changed in 2005 when the merger was announced.

Actually, for most of us it changed in 1987 (PSA) or 1988 (Piedmont) when the merger was announced.

"Its not the West's fault that the east guys hitched their wagons to a financially weak airline."-JuneBug
We didn't, like you we got merged and it ain't over yet...
AWA wasn't exactly a financially strong airline either (bankrupt at least once and less than 30 days of operating capital left) and YOU had nothing to do with the turn around.
We all did our job. None of us chose the management team or made any corporate decisions, so don't get all righteous about who came from where, it's all luck.

 

[Phoenix]

Gotta give Prater credit for having cahones. Meeting with the pilots to sell them some promises of a better contract without addressing the merged list takes a giant set. For his sake, I hope he brings body guards.

All the meetings are in public eateries and spread out over six hours. The small rooms and wide time will ensure that the number of pilots are small at any given time. Cajones? I don't really think so. Cunning? You be the judge.

Personally why any pilot would waste their time telling Prater didly, or listening to more meaningless drivel, is beyond me.

 

[OldGuyinPA]

So those Jet Blue pilots who were in elementary school back when....Will be covered by this nonsense. I'm not a pilot but...

DOH only makes common sense. If the old USair hadn't retrenched back in 1992..AWA wouldn't have existed and SWA and Alaska Airlines would b much smaller than they are.

Of course there is no common sense in this world anymore...It's all about me....screw everyone else. God help us all...

 

[AWA320]

June,

Do you really believe the Pilots will ever work under the Nicolau List? I mean as one group anyway. Seems the West just can't figure the answer to that one out!

I can answer that one for you if you like. I think you are about to see out of this management team something that is going to set you stright on your rear. Your leadership or the lack there of has finally done it, they have over played their hand and this time it's gonna hurt!!

 

[AWA320]

For 60 years, that is how pilot mergers were conducted within ALPA. That is how the vast majority of other unions conduct mergers. That is how seniority is determined in-house to this day, AWA pilot group included.

But alas, ALPA changed it's merger policy in the '90's under pressure from one or two pilot groups. DOH was removed as the primary yardstick. In it's place was substituted a vague, ambiguous recipe which could be interpreted ten different ways depending on your point of view.

I call it the aribitrator make-work project.

Come on Piedmont, you're much better than that!!! It wasn't a couple of carriers it was the majority, you know that 50% PLUS 1 that you guys are so fond of! If you didn't like the new policy why on earth didn't you attempt to make this union change long ago?? For christ sakes you've had over 15 years!! The east is long over due for some adult supervision. You make deals and then not honor them well rest assured we've made some deals of our own and you guys are in for the shock of your lives. Remember Piedmont, this never had to happen nor was it what we wanted!!!

 

[AWA320]

Gotta give Prater credit for having cahones. Meeting with the pilots to sell them some promises of a better contract without addressing the merged list takes a giant set. For his sake, I hope he brings body guards.

Spoken like one the roll call four!!!

 

[AWA320]

June
Not having a dog in this fight i have read with interest the many posts from both sides. I have never read a post from West that says they can not live with Nicolau.
I have never read a post from East that says they can live with it. That seems more than a little strange to me. I had hoped both sides would not like it very well.

I dont think the East really expected DOH in the end June so do you have an idea what the problem is on the West seeming to love it and the East hates it.

I'll answer that for you, it was never a question of love for the list. We in the west were just so suprised that we didn't get Fk'ed in this deal!! There was a good number of us who felt that we were going to hosed. There are also many on the property that felt that the east should have been stapled to the bottom of our list. Realitive seniority in the end was the fair way to go. A pilot on the east who was 10 from the bottom was merged with a pilot on the west who was 10 from the bottom. Anyone who wanted more than that is just greedy!!

 

[AWA320]

AWA wasn't exactly a financially strong airline either (bankrupt at least once and less than 30 days of operating capital left)

You guys have been lied to so much I doubt you would even recognize the truth!! Do an SEC filing search my friend, AWA had well in access of 350 million in the bank at the time we went fishing for AAA. Keeping in mind that the first fish, the one we wanted and most certainly been less trouble was ATA!!!

 

[PA18]

Go ask the former Empire Pilots what ALPA did to them during the Piedmont Merger, there was not DOH hire used, they were penalized the minute they came off the F28, they lost their seniority.

So dont tell me ALPA used DOH for 60 years.

Mainline PI screwed the Empire Pilots and AAA did not rectify the situation when PI and US merged.

The PAI pilots also fought vehemently against DOH in the AAA/PAI merger. They wanted slotting.

What's ironic is that what the AWA pilots were awarded by Nicolau is almost exactly what the PAI pilots wanted from Kagel. That would have put 6-year PAI pilots ahead of 14-year AAA pilots.

Of course, many of the former PAI pilots who today think Nicolau is such an outrage thought the very same formula was perfectly fair in 1988.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Come on Piedmont, you're much better than that!!! It wasn't a couple of carriers it was the majority, you know that 50% PLUS 1 that you guys are so fond of! If you didn't like the new policy why on earth didn't you attempt to make this union change long ago?? For christ sakes you've had over 15 years!! The east is long over due for some adult supervision. You make deals and then not honor them well rest assured we've made some deals of our own and you guys are in for the shock of your lives. Remember Piedmont, this never had to happen nor was it what we wanted!!!

Oh yes it had to happen, the first time two legacy carriers put this new merger policy to the test. The test has failed.

And I stand by what I said, a couple of carriers, namely United and Delta. Did they have a majority back then? I don't know, but they obviously had the majority of influence with ALPA national.

 

[Piedmont1984]

The PAI pilots also fought vehemently against DOH in the AAA/PAI merger. They wanted slotting.

What's ironic is that what the AWA pilots were awarded by Nicolau is almost exactly what the PAI pilots wanted from Kagel. That would have put 6-year PAI pilots ahead of 14-year AAA pilots.

Of course, many of the former PAI pilots who today think Nicolau is such an outrage thought the very same formula was perfectly fair in 1988.

Yes you are right. Back then I wanted slotting. But when the list came out we accepted it and moved on. We did not sue. We did not begin a decertification effort. We recognized that DOH was basically fair and equitable. I knew I had time to recoup what I had lost.

This award shuts the door on hundreds of F/O's with up to twenty years of service from achieving that left seat, which is the reason most of us are here, and is the mother of all career expectations.

 

[a320av8r]

...Realitive seniority in the end was the fair way to go. ...

Maybe relative postition would've been fair but this wasn't even relative position! This was a hose job no matter how you try to justify it. If every one of the AWA pilots are thrilled (they are) and everyone of the east pilots are pissed (they are) something is not "fair and balanced". When all are pissed, then it's fair.

 

[AWA320]

Maybe relative postition would've been fair but this wasn't even relative position! This was a hose job no matter how you try to justify it. If every one of the AWA pilots are thrilled (they are) and everyone of the east pilots are pissed (they are) something is not "fair and balanced". When all are pissed, then it's fair.

Please explain your logic?? How is it not fair that the bottom guy on the east is mergered with the bottom guy in the west?? I think you are looking for some greed here myself.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Please explain your logic?? How is it not fair that the bottom guy on the east is mergered with the bottom guy in the west?? I think you are looking for some greed here myself.

Because the two bottom guys are like night and day....or maybe like father and son. Two completely different career lengths, length and breadth of experience, years of paying union dues, number of stormy nights, etc., etc., etc.

 

[N924PS]

Please explain your logic?? How is it not fair that the bottom guy on the east is mergered with the bottom guy in the west?? I think you are looking for some greed here myself.

In fact that did not happen.

Dean Collello (16 plus years) was placed below Save Dave (less than 2 years).

Arbitraitor (my spelling!) Nicolau completely disregarded the fact that Colello and others were not furloughed, but working flying aircraft at MidAtlantic,The Embraer Division of USAirways.

They were being paid by USAirways and operations were conducted under USAirway's FAA Operating Certificate. Not furloughed at all. Brought a job to the merger. In fact Doug and the money boys sold all the MidAtlantic planes (the pilots did not go with the jets) to Republic as part of the merger transaction.

Perhaps the blame rests with the USairways Merger Committee and Attorney Katz. This should have been a no brainer but now will be tied up in the courts for years to come.

Greed? I think not.